[wishinghand]

Perhaps I’m biased because I played the game when I was 14 and had much more free time to dedicate to it, but it’s my impression that Grim Fandango was known for having few of the rubber-chicken-with-a-pulley-in-it type of puzzles.

As for your question about “what is the player being challenged to do?” I had to sit and think for a bit. I think the most straightforward answer is to just think abstractly and make connections in the context of a humorous noir story. You certainly aren’t being challenged to solve a mystery, but I’m not sure it really matters. I’m not sure if you mean it like Chess challenges you to vanquish your opponent and The Witness demands color/pattern/maze analysis.

[roenxi]

> I think the most straightforward answer is to just think abstractly and make connections in the context of a humorous noir story.

I can't easily reconcile that with the linked puzzle document. If I pick on something at random (page 16, Puzzle #12: Get Starter [0]). I don't see any particular advantage to abstract thinking or even superficially understanding the scene. It looks like the player is expected to brute-force solutions. The situation overall is pretty entertaining and we learn a little bit about the world; but the actual puzzle - even with the design docs - doesn't give any hints about how players are meant to come up with that solution thoughtfully. The design doc doesn't seem to think that clues, hints or the like are important. If the symbology of using spiderwebs as sling-shots with bones is a standard trope then I suppose maybe I'm just out of it - but I don't think it is. That isn't how spiderwebs work. It seems logically suspect even in the game's own context - if the scythe can't cut the web, why can't we use it to slingshot? Or if not getting the scythe stuck is critical, why do we need the scythe at all? Manny can just grip the bone.

It isn't bad as such; these puzzles can be solved and I enjoyed a bunch of these games with walkthroughs in hand. But it is easy to see why the market for point & clicks evaporated - the gameplay loop is weak and the puzzle aspect is also weak.

[0] And we can see what that became in the game here - https://youtu.be/jIoSL-uSwfs?t=4223

[wishinghand]

I recall using cartoon logic to think that the web might be stretchy or bouncy. I’m way from my desk right now so I can’t easily consult the doc, but I recall Manny’s observations filling in whatever else I needed to do to solve the puzzle.

The only puzzle that stumped me was much later in the game, when a pneumatic tube demon asked me questions about Maximino where the answer was a number. I was so used to gleaning info from conversations or Manny’s quips that I didn’t realize the demon was using some bingo number picker or something in the background.