Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

[sgraz]

Hey HN,

I built a wireless, split, ultra-low profile keyboard from scratch called Bayleaf. As a beginner I learned all things electronics, PCB-building, designing for manufacturing, and many other hardware-related skills to put this together.

This case study dives into the build process and of course the final result, hope you enjoy!

[jacobevelyn]

This is the keyboard I’ve been hoping Apple would make for years! I’ve currently got a UHK 60 but would probably switch to this if I could buy it. Especially if it had the standard Apple keyboard layout so my fingers don’t need to relearn things like arrow keys and cmd like when I switch between the UHK and MacBook keyboard.

[robenkleene]

For folks looking for something similar that you can buy https://hellonuio.com/

[nextos]

Me too. Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run, and also makes me type faster due to low-travel switches. Bonus points if it has a little bit of negative tilt.

In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually sold to Incase, who are releasing it again soon.

[roflchoppa]

I really just want a wireless 60v2. Been debating trying to make a new PCB that uses a nice!nano.

I’m sure the devils in the details.

[SJMG]

Yes. Agreed.

[seemaze]

Bravo! You have elevated a honed tool to a truly engaging artifact! I think the large challenge in design is mitigating the breaking point between ruthless efficiency and endearing novelty.

I picked up a Let's Split v2[0] when it came out years ago and never soldered it up.. maybe it's time!

[0]https://shop.beekeeb.com/product/lets-split-v2-keyboard-pcb-...

[w10-1]

For next iteration, consider integrating trackpads?

Moving to the mouse and back is pain enough that people go all-in on keyboard-only interfaces.

I velcroed a trackpad to the middle of a Kinesis Advantage. Now I use either hand for the mouse, and even stretch a finger or thumb to the pad without leaving the keys. The movement is little different from using the keyboard.

But for split keyboard, you'd need one trackpad for each side, and in dimensions not readily available. hmm.

[jazzabeanie]

I want a trackpads integrated into the keys. Under the J key a trackpad with low sensitifity, and under the K key a trackpad with high sensitivity.

[sgraz]

Definitely looking into adding trackpad/trackpoint/touchpad(?) into the V2. And finding a way to do so without sacrificing the minimalist look and feel too much.

[JeremyBarbosa]

So happy to read this because I don't see it mentioned often enough.

I have a ErgoDox EZ, and I still prefer using my Framework 13 (with Kanata![0]) because having my thumbs navigate the trackpad is so convenient even with a keyboard-driven setup.

[0] https://github.com/jtroo/kanata

[mkl]

I put a trackball (Kensington Expert Mouse) in between the keyboard halves. With tenting it can nestle in quite close.

[danielvaughn]

Personal opinion, but I really don’t get low-profile keyboards. I always need a foam cushion for my palms, which means that a normal profile always feels best for me. Low feels too low with a cushion, and yet still feels too high without one.

[crazygringo]

I know what you mean, but there's also a big difference between key height and keyboard height.

There's also a common misconception that it's ergonomic to angle a keyboard "upward" (elevating the back of the keyboard), when correct ergonomics is actually to angle the keyboard downwards (elevate the front).

See if you have a long object a little shorter than your foam cushion that you can scotch tape to the bottom of the front of a low-profile Apple keyboard, so that you still use the foam cushion but the front of the keyboard is at the same level as the cushion, and then angles downwards.

And then you get the advantages of the short key travel, which just means your fingers move less and so there's less force/strain.

You may find it shockingly comfortable!

[apocalyptic0n3]

I've tried numerous keyboards and the conclusion I've come to is that there's low profile and then there's low profile. The bulk of the low profiles I've tried (NuPhy, Keychron K8, the mechanical Logitech, a few others) are definitely low profile compared to the Logitech Pro X TKL I use for my gaming PC. However, they're still tall. Most of the gains are from a shorter switch and keycap, but the body is still quite high.

If you compare it to the Apple Magic Keyboard I'm typing on now – and that seems like a definite inspiration for the Bayleaf – it's a stark contrast. The K3, for example, is more than twice as tall (10.9mm vs 22mm backrow). The Magic Keyboard feels fine to type on without any sort of wrist support and I never feel any strain. But on the K3, even with a support (tried both their wooden support and a similarly sized foam one), I would feel strain after an hour or two.

Most low-profiles are really just a middle ground between the two sides. And, at least in my experience, you get the downsides of both without any of the positives of either.

[lsaferite]

As a low-profile keyboard zealot, I'm trying to imagine why you'd need a foam pad under your palm. But maybe I'm odd. My entire forearm rests on my desk and supports my arm weight so nothing is pushing down on my hands. Then my hands flow directly over the LP keyboard without any appreciable bend in my wrist.

[makeitdouble]

My take is that finger muscle are really different from person to person, to a degree that can be surprising.

I might be at the other extreme end, but even typing on glass doesn't bother me much, and laptop keyboards are a good compromise to have just enough travel and not too much.

I tried a nuphy low profile and it was tiring after a while. The thinkpad standalone trackpoint keyboard has been my go to for a while, and tgis keyboard also looks great to me.

[bee_rider]

Another opinion:

I want this keyboard to put on a bookshelf and never use, haha. It is really nice looking. It sounds like it was an incredible learning experience and making something so polished and professional looking is a real accomplishment. But low profile, no pads, ortho layout, and no tenting… my eyes ache for the beauty of the thing but my hands just ache.

But anyway, ergonomics are personal so I can’t really judge.

[LAC-Tech]

I like low-profile in theory, but in practices there's so many high quality mx profile switches, and everything in low-profile land seems a bit substandard. I can't go back to unlubed linears, or scratchy brown clones.

[__MatrixMan__]

I agree. It looks like with this it would be near impossible to press the lower left/right keys with my palm, which is something that helps take the load off my pinkies. It does look like a fun project though.

[exitb]

It really depends on personal preferences. I find it best to hover the wrists while typing and rest while idle. In such case no palm rest paired with reasonably low profile works best.

[klauserc]

Fantastically beautiful keyboard!

Keyboards are such a good hobby project. The scope is comparatively small, yet within that scope you get in contact with many different and highly interesting subjects and challenges. And you can more or less pick and choose, which ones you engage with (wireless vs wired, soldering vs hand-wired, custom firmware vs. ZMK/QMK, split vs. traditional).

[sandreas]

This is so funny, I dived into the custom keyboard rabbit hole just 3 weeks ago. Never thought this would be so intriguing and time consuming.

Did you consider Mill-Max Sockets?

My personal favorite are 80% TKL ISO low profile keyboards, which is quite uncommon and I've not found much except the

  Keychron K1 Max 

having this layout. Unfortunately, the integrated Gateron brown/red/... low profile switches are not my thing - my favorite ones would be Lofree Kailh Ghost, but these don't fit the keyboard, although it is hot swappable because low profile switches are non standard (at least 2 different layouts I know of).

So I also thought about a custom solution. I found pretty impressive open source firmware and pcbs [1], but I noticed that I just didn't have the time to do all this. Since keyboards are so an individual device, manufacturing bigger batches is risky and manufacturing smaller batches is expensive... so pretty much no choice than waiting for someone having the same dream as I have or do it myself after shoving free enough time.

1: https://github.com/4pplet/waffling80/issues/1

[ValentinPearce]

> I dived into the custom keyboard rabbit hole just 3 weeks ago

Take your time, the GAS is real and expensive !

All jokes aside, ordering small batches of PCBs is unfortunately very expensive, especially if you have a larger size.

If you ever feel the itch of going towards ergonomic split keyboards, you'll find plenty of ~40% splits that use reversible PCBs for both halves which allows for cheap batches. Typically you get 5 PCBs with JLC and that gives you enough to build one full keyboard for work and one for home.

[UI_at_80x24]

OP, congrats on the product and effort. _NOTHING_ beats prototyping and building.

For other split-mechanical keyboards check out:

ZSA Voyager

Moergo Glove 80

[cole-k]

Yeah this is awesome.

For keyboards really similar to OP's

The keyboard they were inspired by (not for sale... yet?): https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cfg3vr/...

Corneish (out of stock): https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen?variant=376943319... Unicorne: https://new.boardsource.xyz/products/unicorne-LP

The corneish is an absolute gem in my opinion. It is possibly (probably?) open-sourced too.

[johncalvinyoung]

less specifically like OP's, but a really great product that I and a bunch of my coworkers use: the 'Ultimate Hacking Keyboard' 60 (typically referred to as a UHK). I have mine with the palmrest and the recent riser accessory, so I use it split and tented for less wrist/forearm tension.

[tortilla]

I have the voyager and I'm really very happy with it. No wrist pain when I'm typing a lot.

https://imgur.com/pklEZSh

Ambients Silent Choc Switches (20g Linear), keycaps from worklouder (Pure)

[w10-1]

Also, should you prioritize ergonomics over function or form, the Kinesis Advantage 360 Professional

[szvsw]

I have the ZSA Moonlander and absolutely love it! Definitely recommend it!

[tquinn]

My ideal keyboard would be taking a Magic keyboard (in black or space gray) and splitting it into two. This is the closest I have seen. I'm too committed to a standard layout to go ortho linear at this point, but I admit it looks the most sleek and modern for sure.

[K7PJP]

> My ideal keyboard would be taking a Magic keyboard (in black or space gray) and splitting it into two.

Me, too. I feel there's a lot of us who want precisely this. I want every key that's on the Magic Keyboard. I already have a number of other Karabiner bindings, like the Hyper key, so I'm adding "layers" that way.

[Executor]

Criticism: - Non-standard layout - Where's the arrow keys block? Insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block? - Non-staggered keys makes it hard to type due to mistyping on the wrong row

Questions: - Do you have nkey rollover? - Would you accept "optional" wires? Note: gaming requires fast response times. Hell even programming/writing sucks when there's key lag.

[cbm-vic-20]

> Where's the arrow keys block? Insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block?

In the nav layer. One popular layout of split keyboards is two 3x5 grids of keys with 3 thumb buttons. With this configuration, it is common to map modifier keys to the home row keys, activated when they are held down. Likewise, for numbers, symbols, navigation, a thumb key is held down to activate that layer. Your fingers never have to stretch more than one key-length away.

Miryoku is a popular implmentation of this. It looks crazy, but you can get used to it really quickly, or alter it to your own taste.

https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku

[6SixTy]

Ortholinear is a standard but non-orthodox layout for keyboards. And when you see 60%, it means you are getting only the main alphanumeric section with esc often smushed into what would otherwise be the ~/` key.

With 60% keyboards, you are often using modifier layers baked into the keyboards' firmware to get back your function keys and your control block like page up

[striking]

I actually don't think I'll be going back to a staggered keyboard. Ortholinear layouts make setting up layers a lot easier, which gives you the ability to set up momentary arrow key or cursor movement blocks.

ZMK supports N-key rollover and layers.

[LAC-Tech]

The trade off you make with these keyboards is that you have to learn a different muscle memory, in return for less finger contortions, more comfort, and less hand waving around the keyboard.

If that's not appealing to you, there's probably no reason to get into it. If it is appealing to you to live mostly on your homerow, then the learning curve is not all that great, maybe a couple of months.

[Etheryte]

I mean, if you're going to design and build a keyboard only for yourself all from scratch, why would you expect a standard layout? The whole thing is bespoke to you.

[aredox]

Nice write-up.

For something so thin, your soldering woes aren't surprising. The standard way to manage that would have been to solder everything in one go on a hot plate (reflow soldering).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk

[sgraz]

Thank you, My first few attempts were with a SMD stencil and a 50x50mm hotplate, it's true that maybe a larger hotplate that could span the whole PCB might have done a better job. But with the smaller plate it was "easier" to just manually apply solder paste and do 4 switches at a time.

I think this method is also highly specific to these switches. They are known for being difficult to solder with hobby-tier equipment.

[shellfishgene]

I just reflowed a board in a cheap cast iron pan filled with some sand on my induction stove. Worked fine!

[ghostly_s]

This video features the exact same technique and hot plate that was used here.

[stronglikedan]

> reflow soldering

one of the most satisfying things to watch

[ushiocheng]

I love this.

Totally have been here done that. While my aesthetics are a bit different than yours, the core idea is very similar. I just imagined if Nuphy and Planck would have a twin and come up with this. I was on a budget so I basically said fuck it to the thickness and just kept the size small. Everything was FDM and I even had a 3d printable pcb-not-so-pcb if you can’t wait at all. This runs zmk for full wireless experience, uses an nrf controller and have a battery life of over a month. I even had custom keycap with stickers on it so I can lookup rarely used keys.

PS. The only cons or why I am not running this for everything is that you kind of need 2 hand to do certain things like pause the music or adjusting volume.

Photo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZwvTO3jMyY0JBKoYrA88sJk-7SX...

[aylmao]

The grid layout makes this look so futuristic (and anime [1]). It looks very cool, though I wonder how long it'd take to get used to one, having only ever typed on staggered layouts.

[1] https://gifer.com/es/BFCV

[isaacaggrey]

I think other commenters are overstating the change from staggered to columnar. I type just fine (100 WPM+) going between my Moonlander (split keyboard from ZSA) and my Lenovo/Macbook (typical staggered layouts).

In hindsight, the biggest issue I ran into switching keyboards was that I was too ambitious playing around with the key configuration. The configurability is a big draw but I took for granted that I had already built up years of natural tendency for certain things - which thumb I use for space, preferences for Ctrl/Alt/Command/Option, for Shift, etc.

The default for these keyboards probably don't 100% align with what you're used to, so you should directly map what you're doing currently over to the keymap of the keyboard and then you can fiddle with making it yours over time.

I will say that if you're not already a touch typer, then a split keyboard is not going to help and it will be more difficult to get used to.

edit: also, if anything, going columnar helped me actually consistently hit number keys!

[milch]

I went from only using my MacBook's builtin keyboard to using a Lily58 split keyboard and it took probably about 2 weeks to fully adjust. I started out at around 100-110 wpm on the standard keyboard. On the first day of the split I was doing about 20-30 wpm, after a week I was up to 60 wpm, and then 80wpm after 2 weeks. Kept improving more slowly after that. I did switch cold turkey, i.e. using it 100% of the time including at work.

Now I'm about a year and a half later and am up to 140wpm. I think the biggest problem for me on the standard keyboard is the bottom row index fingers and pinkies, the "natural" motion of my fingers lands right in between the two keys on those fingers so I used to make a lot of mistakes there, especially when typing fast.

[squigz]

I was taught to touch-type on a standard QWERTY keyboard at a very young age. I picked up an Ergodox EZ after nearly 20 years of that. It unfortunately took me at least a couple years before I was 100% again - probably 6 months to a year to get "used" to it and not mistype keys regularly.

They're worth it though!

[LAC-Tech]

Took a few weeks to get used to, but I love it now (Planck), and I'm just as fast, if not a bit faster, than on my laptop keyboard. It's also much easier for me to use my right small finger to hit P than it is on a "normal" keyboard.

[ciberado]

tl;dr: don't be afraid of trying it.

In my case, going from a regular keyboard to a split one like he Raise[1] took me 10 minutes of adaption time. My second split one was (is) a columnar (the Defy[2]), and I must confess that the adaption time was something like three days. Mostly because I kept failing to correctly push a few keys (like the C). Now I can indistinctly work with a columnar or a stagged one with zero problem. In fact, I usually use both types many days.

That said, I thought that the change would make me feel more comfortable, but to be honest in my case the difference is not big at all.

[1] https://dygma.com/pages/dygma-raise-2

[2] https://dygma.com/pages/defy

[snide]

This is beautiful. I'm a "Let's Split" style keyboarder as well so this made me giddy! There's a distinct lack of solid cases out there for this layout style.

You mention possibly mass producing the next round. Please add a notify email list or something. I'd be all over this.

[__mharrison__]

I think cases are the biggest issue with DIY keyboards.

The plastic laminate of my ergodoxen was stiff, sturdy, and heavy. The exposed bolts were a little industrial. Very much had a DIY look.

My Lily58 started out with the PCB "case" which is horrible. Way too flexible, and switches falling out as soon as you attempted to transport it. (Easy transport was my main motivation for the smaller keyboard.)

Eventually, I was able to convince someone on Etsy to print me a 3d case for it. It is ok. Much better than the PCBs. However, switches still have a tendency to pop out when moving the keyboard.

The case on the Bayleaf makes me wonder if other keyboards could do a better job with case offerings.

I've always gone with wired keyboards because dealing with batteries seems annoying.

Looking at this keyboard makes me realize that I've optimized for functionality but this beauty is optimized for form.

[nicksergeant]

I've wanted this for years. I've tried so many "ergonomic" mechanical keyboards, but the huge key travel (even if very soft switches), tends to always give me finger/wrist issues over a few weeks.

[nicksergeant]

>> Can I buy this keyboard? > Negative, this singular prototype is not for sale.

:sobbing:

I hope someone builds / sells this! Instant buy for me, if so.

[unitexe]

To reduce mouse hand travel I got a roller mouse pro slim about 6 months ago. Not great for fine motor tasks but exceptional for other general uses. Alleviated a lot of pain in my hands and fingers.

I use this with a small slim keychron keyboard and with a kinesis advantage 360.

The roller seems to be getting a bit sticky after 6 months of heavy use and transporting it between work and home. Nonetheless, would get another in a heartbeat.

Perhaps worth a look?

[stronglikedan]

I had all those issues too, until I remembered my high school typing class where the teacher would slap our wrists with a ruler if they were resting. Now I lift my wrists like I was taught, and use non-split keyboards with better results than I used to get with splits.

[lycopodiopsida]

There is always Glove80, choc switches have very little travel.

[elromulous]

"Sans stagger — I’m not against stagger, I just love the neat look of a pain rectangle." [sic]

What an apt typo :)

[sgraz]

Haha I didn’t think it would be misinterpreted as a typo. It’s colloquially called “pain rectangle” within the ergo community. But happy it amused the readers. I edited the article to include that explanation!

[speff]

Pain indeed. I tried an ortho layout a few weeks ago on a split Corne and developed really bad wrist pain. No idea why, but it went away after reverting to a stagger and giving that hand a break

[regularfry]

The unsung hero here is probably the nice!nano. Such a good little board. I've made my own split keyboard around them and it just makes so many things I thought I'd have to think about Go Away.

[jsheard]

The nice!nano gets the job done but it's really expensive for what's ultimately just an nRF52 dev board in the ubiquitous Pro Micro form factor. They're $25 a pop and you need two for a split board, while you can get generic nRF52 Pro Micros on AliExpress for about $3.50 each.

It's the same story with RP2040 Pro Micros for wired QMK builds, there's a huge "keyboard tax" if you get the ones marketed for that purpose.

[voidUpdate]

Why do no split keyboards have symbols on the keycaps? What happens when you forget where a key is that you don't use often, do you just have to press keys until you find it again?

[jsheard]

Partly because they're a niche product and making legended keycaps is more expensive, and partially because ergo layouts are so varied that it's hard to accommodate everyone. Especially if the keycap profile has different shapes for each row so they're not entirely interchangeable.

There are a few low-profile legended keycap sets around but they typically only cover the "top" layer, which is the easiest to remember anyway. If you want legends which show every function of every key you'd have to get them custom laser etched to match your personal keymap.

[klauserc]

You can buy ZSA split keyboards with labels on the keycaps. Its great while you are still learning to type on these rather exotic keyboards. As you get more proficient, you start to rely more and more on the "central" keys (using layers toggles to put, say arrow keys on the home row). Muscle-memory is often more than enough.

That said, I have kept the number row labelled. These keys are not obscured by your hands and they can give you the necessary frame of reference. The ideal trade-off for me.

[nicholassmith]

When I forget where I've stashed a specific symbol or similar I just check the Via QMK configuration tool, similar to when you're trying to learn the shortcut keys for a piece of software. Eventually it's muscle-memory, but it's nice to have a reference guide whilst you're building it.

[amarant]

I have the ultimate hackers keyboard (silly name, I know)

It's a really good split keyboard with symbols printed (optional).

https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/

[milch]

Realistically you've got about 50 or so keys and you are using all of them all the time, so you're not really forgetting where anything is. Many also customize where symbols, media keys, etc., are - so they are positioned where it makes most sense to you. Outside of maybe a 2 week learning period I haven't needed to look up where a key is at all

The other thing is that many keys will have multiple functions - so what do you print on them? e.g. my j key also doubles as # and the down key. Some are maybe even more frequently used key combinations, e.g. I have a ``` and a => key

[CountHackulus]

I have a keyboardio Model 100 and it does have symbols on it. Available in mac, windows, and blank iirc.

[lawn]

You can have symbols if you want.

It's just kind of unnecessary when you can just learn the layout. It's not a big deal, I've used blank keycaps for almost two decades across multiple different layouts.

[numpad0]

Just friction. All it takes is commitment to a particular keymap and few minutes on a laser engraver, but that commitment is not insignificant to builders.

[ivanjermakov]

All ergonomic mech keyboards running QMK/ZMK firmware are programmable and most users prefer their custom key/layer mapping over defaults.

[1-more]

when you have so few keys, there are none that you don't use often. When you customize your layout, you have keys that don't really correspond to caps anyway, and you may want to mess around with their values as you get used to it. Typed from my Iris with key caps from an Apple Extended Keyboard II that look nice and don't really tell the whole story for each key they're on.

[aendruk]

> What happens when you forget where a key is

I ask myself where I expected it to be, then update the keyboard accordingly. Eventually it doesn’t happen anymore.

[varunneal]

to support custom key mappings, as many people with fancy ergonomic keyboards use

[stavros]

Honestly, for mine it was because I didn't know what I wanted the keys to do when I was making it. It took a few months to settle on a layout, and even now I might still change it with usage.

[Daegalus]

Hey, this is awesome. I also have been building my own keyboard. I wanted something that others where making. Split, low profile, hotswappable, supports Kailh v1 and v2, Vertically staggered ortholinear, wireless, had more than 60 keys, closer to 68 or 75%. I had an ErgoDash before, but didn't like the high profile, and modding it to be wireless was a bit finicky.

I had already used and made my first prototype and realized my thumb cluster was not positioned right and not comfortable for use. So I have the PCBs for the Prototype 2 where the entire bottom row is shifted in. I learned a lot about PCB design and MCUs through this. Yours looks SOOO much better laid out compared to mine too.

Old pictures of prototype 1: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VhqQmjGyzTeBbKFQ9 ( have top and bottom plates, i just never used them because i found the thumb cluster issue quickly) (there is an ErgoDash pictured too that I used previously, modded to be wireless)

Life, becoming a father, moving to a different country, and so many things have put this project on hold, but I will finish it soon.

[user68858788]

I’m currently using the kinesis advantage. It’s a great keyboard but I’ve been hoping to find a wireless split keyboard for a while. This one looks great.

[LAC-Tech]

I like your design choices.

Putting the micro-controllers at the far ends means the rest of the board can be lower, meaning less need for palm supports. Also I like you NOT having OLED screens - they're toys at best and one more thing to break at worse.

As for Ortho VS Staggered, ortho has the great advantage of things like WASD just being usable out of the box, and also flexibility with things like numpad layers. I've printed paper cut outs of things like the ferris sweep to see if pinky stagger would be comfortable for me, and the answer was negative. Probably very hand dependent.

Curious why aluminium and not steel? Steel is a heavier, and also has less of that pingy noise, though I have no idea about machining so perhaps it's a no go.

[sgraz]

I would not put OLEDs for the reasons you mentioned, but also because it would drain the battery in 1 day vs 1 week.

Steel is likely better and surely stronger, but manufacturers charge 2x more for steel alloy machining. At that price level, titanium also becomes an interesting option.

[jjani]

I'd definitely buy this to try if it works for me.

> Typing on the keyboard is very comfortable due to it’s low height. No more wrist arching.

Fully agreed. I went through many keyboards, from very expensive to very cheap, until I found the one my joints were okay with, and I think it was the lowest height of all. A cheap no-name, straight from Aliexpress. I think it's even lower than yours - hard to measure, but looks like ~4mm from table to top of keys. You can tell from the size of the USB-C port [1].

[1] https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sffc2751fa6184967aaa16f2a629ca166...

[Umang018]

This is really impressive, especially considering the complexity of designing a wireless split keyboard from scratch! Having built my own mechanical keyboard before (though not wireless), I know how much goes into PCB design, key switch selection, and firmware development.

One challenge I’ve seen with wireless keyboards (especially splits) is managing synchronization lag between halves. Some DIY split builds struggle with Bluetooth interference, while others use NRF-based communication. What approach did you take to keep latency low and ensure reliable keypress synchronization? Also, how does the power efficiency compare to something like a ZMK-powered split?

[varispeed]

Maybe stupid question, but can split keyboard work as two separate keyboards connecting independently to the operating system? That way you don't have to synchronise anything.

[happens]

Awesome! Looks like it accompanied an apple trackpad, super sleek.

I'm also using nice!nanos in my projects, and they're great little devices. At this point I'd love there to be a good alternative using a dongle, though... I have a desktop PC that I want to use them with, and since they can't connect via Bluetooth at boot time, I always have to connect them to select a boot option and unlock my ZFS drive.

Having an affordable or open source controller that can do split as well as nice!nanos, but also switch between Bluetooth and a dongle is like the holy grail to me. I'd instantly buy 10.

[milch]

People make their own dongles using another nice!nano or something more compact like the Xiao BLE

[cbdumas]

Very cool. Goes well with your Ghost S1 as well I see in the background. I love mine, though I will say it's getting harder and harder to find decent 2 slot GPUs.

[sgraz]

It's a Ghost S1 Chinese copy called Acat X2

https://caseend.com/data/acat/acat-x2

Almost 1-1 in dimensions but with thicker panels

[noboostforyou]

Ah, I was wondering if anyone else noticed the Louqe case in the background. Legendary sffpc case, and I agree the custom keyboard matches very nicely.

[zaruvi]

Looks really nice. I do have my doubts about the ergonomics of it though. Once you've had a taste of concavity and column-staggering nothing else feels the same.

[carb]

That's how I feel about keyboard tilts away from a full pronation/flat and towards a neutral position. Once I switched to having a rotated split keyboard, my forearms and wrists felt incredible, and I hadn't even considered them uncomfortable before.

[HHalvi]

Ever since I saw this video[1] by Dave2D I have felt the need to move away from my regular mechanical keyboards to Ortholinear keyboards. Non split keyboards seemed too much of a hassle and Bayleaf looks like something I can totally switch to. If only someone built a DIY kit that I could buy off shelves.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVfB_0s470I

[geokon]

First time seeing a low profile keyboard on par with a magic keyboard. Actually would fit in a bag :)

Usually "low profile" is used generously in mechanical keyboard land

[roetlich]

Looks awesome! This with a small carrying case would be amazing. Maybe the space next to the keys could be a kind of small touch pad used for scrolling?

[hinkley]

The part of my brain that never stopped playing Tetris notices that if you had striped the color variations left to right instead of top to bottom you’d have a more uniform color variation. And if you’s put half the dark and half the light on each side then the gradient would look more purposeful.

But you also probably should have printed 2x as many keys and split them up for making two copies.

[sgraz]

Keen eye, initially I did sort the right split from left-to-right. But also over time the fat from the fingers affected the color as well, so I figured it's a loosing battle anyway. I'm waiting for a white colored MJF print, which should eliminate these color woes once I figure out the proper dimensions.

[emmelaich]

I feel the large spaces in the middle could instead be for a trackpad. One side only of course, the other would have keys up to the edge. I often long for the convenience of the inbuilt mac trackpad when I'm using an external bluetooth keyboard and trackpad. Unfortunately the edges and the location of the trackpad charging port make it not ideal.

[jacksontheel]

This looks incredible, I was hoping when I clicked that it would be ortholinear, pleasantly surprised it is! Probably about four years ago I bought a ZSA Moonlander, and started learning Vim keybindings right at the same time. My words per minute dropped to 20 or something before climbing back and passing what it was before. I couldn't ever go back.

[maltalex]

Nice work, very impressive! What software did you use to create the design? Any recommendations for CAD and PCB design newbies?

[sgraz]

CAD for the case and keycaps was Fusion360 (Paid version to have Configurations which are clutch)

And the following subs were great for general CAD/Electronic knowledge

* https://www.youtube.com/@Fusion360School * https://www.youtube.com/@adafruit * https://www.youtube.com/@Borgedesigns * https://www.youtube.com/@TheFusionEssentials * https://www.youtube.com/@joe_scotto

[rosstex]

I once did a ton of research and settled on an ergonomic split keyboard. I ended up using it for a while but never fully got used to it enough to actually type well with it. In fact, it screwed up my typing and now I make more mistakes than I used to years later. I regret it so much. I don't understand split keyboards.

[jabart]

First it looks amazing. Honest question, why do all of these keyboards never have an extra column on the right. Standard querty layout has a lot of coding related extra keys to the right than the left. Similar with the ergodox ez and moonlander. Hard to break a years long habit of going up for a curly brace or bracket then down.

[azthecx]

It really tends to be because the philosophy of homerow / economy of movement is quite high on the split / ergo keyboard communities, combined with the ease of creating temporary layers (imagine you had multiple programmable shift buttons).

[saltcod]

Beautifully done. I would buy this board in a heartbeat. I'd also buy a course on how you built it.

[jjcm]

Beautiful build, and very close to my dream keyboard. Excited to see the v2 of this.

Great writeup as well - thanks for sharing!

[mattpavelle]

I love this. Well done. I've looked in the past for an ultra portable full sized keyboard (with a nice aesthetic) that I could throw in my pocket. I wonder if I could actually do any real work (not coding, of course) at a coffee shop with my iPhone in a stand and with a keyboard like that.

[kirillzubovsky]

Yes. Shut up and take my money! This is exactly what I've been looking for and couldn't find. Seriously, can I just give you money and take the prototype right now?

[kirillzubovsky]

p.s. you'll see a million opinions on how to improve it, but this is perfect. don't overcomplicate it. Apple Keyboard, split in half, is literally all there need to be and nothing more. It's perfect!

[GordonS]

Wow, it looks amazing!

I needed an enclosure for a project recently and went with modifying a stock ABS enclosure - but I'd love to use machined aluminium! You mentioned you're in the EU - did PCBway deliver from the US, or from closer to home? Also, how much did the enclosure cost please?

[sgraz]

The PCBWay order came from China to my EU address, I wasn't aware they have manus in other places. For a set of two enclosures I paid $187 excluding shipping.

[flyingpenguin]

I have been working on a very similar build.

One feature I decided was a requirement is holding me up. I really want pogo pins on the sides of the keyboards, so that they magnetically attach and the left will charge the right.

How do you charge the left and the right since they require separate cables?

[bb88]

That doesn't seem to hard to do. They sell the connectors on amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Connector-Positions-Pogopin-...

Each battery should probably have their own charging circuit anyway. So the pogo pins should be 5V and ground coming directly from the USB 5V line.

[nonethewiser]

It's a very impressive accomplishment. Nice job and you should be proud.

My main reaction when seeing this was "this is not for me." In terms of the layout, no labels, etc. I'm actually surprised to see how many people seemingly have no problem with this.

[egypturnash]

This is so pretty. I’ve been playing with a used Ergodox and this is so close to what I feel like I’d build if I made my own from scratch. The main difference is that each half is a 6x5 grid instead of 7x5, and me being fine with a wired keyboard.

[ddejohn]

The link when you mention Mikefive's post only goes to the subreddit, not a specific post. Searching for "Mikefive" on reddit yielded a lot of results. I'd love to see the specific post you were referring to.

Beautiful keyboard.

Sent from my Allium58 Low Profile :D

[nacs]

It's this one https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cfg3vr/...

[rambling]

That's insane, nice work!

I know quite a few people who would buy if you ever produced even 10 of them. Part 2 having charging magnets would seem good. Me personally, I don't have 2 usb-c ports lying around that aren't already used :P

[memhole]

Wouldn’t even know it’s not a professional product. Great write up too

[szvsw]

Fantastic write up and beautiful design decisions. Really remarkable work! As another market data point, I would definitely pay a premium price if you were to go to market with it.

[doubleyou]

Looking forward to stagger/more thumbs in the next one! magnet batteries also sound very cool. and if they could sandwich eachother protectively for packing/traveling wow

[shawnz]

Aside: What's that mouse pictured in the second pic?

[sgraz]

Correct, it's MX Master 3S in gray

[Kovah]

Would like to know that as well. At least GPT doesn't recognize it. Maybe it's a custom build, too?

[rmnwski]

Was wondering this as well. Looks a bit like a Logitech MX 3. Hard to find pictures from the same angle.

[volemo]

sgraz beat me to it! I’m working on an almost the same project (thin, slick, aluminium, ortholinear). Guess I’ll have someone to look up to. (:

[sgraz]

Keep me posted! Whats your bsky/x?

[bschwindHN]

Nice work! I especially like the satisfying layout of the PCB traces, glad you didn't skimp on that detail.

[nashashmi]

My niche idea: Being a CAD user with one hand on the mouse and the other on a one-handed keyboard would be a charm.

[halayli]

Great work! Maybe in the next iteration try adding a lite haptic tracking device(or similar) on the inner sides.

[azthecx]

Quite neat result and presentation! Can you estimate what did your research and final product cost turn out to be?

[sgraz]

Final product, i.e only the parts and components were $400.

The cost of all the tools and software I did not track but I would guess I invested somewhere around $1K which includes software licenses, shipping, new tools etc.

But I find tracking the cost of research a bit impractical as it doesn't include indirect costs like billable hours that I technically could have spent on clients etc.

[tomlong]

This looks really good. As a happy ergodox-ez user of a few years, I would buy one of these in a heartbeat.

[jodacola]

Beautiful keyboard. Great write-up.

I would buy one at a premium price point, if you’re interested in a market data point.

[donio]

Do the two sides communicate with each other or do they act as independent devices?

[jsheard]

With the ZMK firmware they're using the sides usually communicate with each other. You have a "primary" side which does most of the firmware heavy lifting, including the Bluetooth connection to the PC, and a "peripheral" side which just sends raw key codes to the primary.

That arrangement means the peripheral side gets significantly better battery life than the primary, so ZMK also has an optional "dongle" mode where you connect a third ZMK device directly to the PC over USB, which acts as the primary, and then both sides of the keyboard act as peripherals so they both sip power.

As a bonus the dongle mode also means the PC sees it as a wired keyboard so it works in the BIOS, etc.

[wnolens]

It's gorgeous. Impressive execution - looks like a polished product from Apple.

[hhheath]

sensational. well done!

one feature I would really like to see is multi-device connectivity/switching like the Logitech MX Keys. Outside of that, this keyboard is my grail board. Looking forward to keeping up with this project!

[wucke13]

I think ZMK (available on the Nice!Nano) does exactly that already?

[2wrist]

This is gorgeous! well done.

[EWiggins]

Curious about the model of the monitor arm seen in the background?

[sgraz]

Humanscale M8.1

[__mharrison__]

Looks beautiful. Congrats. A jedi builds their own lightsaber...

(Typed on a Lily58)

[whalesalad]

Beautiful design, great execution. All-in-all this is a wonderful project.

However... ever since transitioning to an ergonomic/curved keyboard I don't think that I could ever go back to a traditional layout, even moreso for ortholinear.

[ge96]

I feel both ways, I use an apple wireless keyboard (flat) and a Durgod Hades 68 (curved mech). I don't like the felt keycaps/no letters on this one but yeah the build is amazing especially saying they're a beginner damn.

edit: I'll note I prefer the 65-68% keyboards where it has the dedicated arrow keys

[NetOpWibby]

Not my kind of keyboard style but damn this looks nice

[volemo]

Could you share the name of the battery you used?

[sgraz]

Li-Po 401235

[gatkinso]

Beautiful work, loved reading about your process.

[nakedneuron]

What parametric CAD tool did you use? Thanks!

[sgraz]

Autodesk Fusion

[numbers]

wow! the design is so simple. if you were selling this, I would be throwing my money at you right now!!

[goodpoint]

That's really not ergonomic.

[Etheryte]

Why do you think that? Split keyboards are considerably more ergonomic than regular keyboards.

[nickdichev]

Really well done! Looks great

[thatxliner]

What about the Glove80?

[HelloUsername]

Typical Amsterdam street

[egypturnash]

Damn that's pretty.

[sagarpatil]

I have one word: Woow!

[rpmisms]

Looks like something I would pay $150 for, or $120 if I had to assemble it myself.

[asoneth]

> Looks like something I would pay $150 for

That's useful market information, but note that in the "How much did it cost?" section he points out that the BOM is ~$400 not including labor, tools, or shipping. Going from extremely low-volume to moderately low-volume might reduce material cost slightly, but I'd still expect him to have to charge at least $400 just to break even.

More generally, I've never seen a low-volume split wireless keyboard for less than $200 and the closest in design I can think of would be https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen which had a base price of $320 before pricing in keyswitches or keycaps.

It's totally reasonable that this is your price point and everyone is different -- some people would never pay more than a hundred bucks for a keyboard, whereas I have a couple keyboards that are more expensive than the computers they're connected to.

[0cf8612b2e1e]

Unlike the author, I consider wireless to be a dealbreaker. Technology barely works, no way I am letting radio quality stand between me and the computer. Same reason I require a wired microphone.

Also add the atrocious security record of HID, and I assume wireless typing is easily intercepted.

[acc_297]

Looks really good

[nwroot]

Looks amazing

[mouse_]

Sans stagger sans ergonomics is a tough sell.

[derac]

"pain grid", Freudian slip? lol

[crazygringo]

I always wanted Apple to make a split keyboard.

Then I realized I could just buy two Magic Keyboards and use them at the same time -- typing on the left half of the left one, and the right half of the right one.

After all, the proper ergonomic position is for your forearms to be parallel (not angled inward), which means the keyboard halves you're using should be approximately shoulder-width apart, so there's tons of room to use both without them colliding.

Once I figured it out, I felt like an idiot for not figuring it out a decade earlier. I'm never going back.

[MarcelOlsz]

I knew I shouldn't have opened HN this morning. I just scraped 3 hours off my morning trying to get this to work but my typing accuracy took an absolute nosedive.

[Luc]

Can you use modifier keys spanning the two keyboards? E.g. shift on the left, and a letter on the right to type a capital?

[ddanieltan]

I don't know the price of a magic keyboard off the top of my head but I'm inclined to think that you could get a really good premium split keyboard for the price of buying 2 magic keyboards.

[sgraz]

This is such a chaotic solution, I love it.

[samstave]

Beautiful!

I have these ultra thin bt keyboards that came in a leather ipad case from Restoration Hardware... SUPER THIN.

These bitches better have a lot of magnets! (oh saw that in future. and the LED thingy -- if you can have a display in the side panels, that would be nifty - and a second BT object? Whereby the display in the side panels is BT to phone and thus get distractions.

my problem with small super thin BT keyboards is that the materials are too slippy -- so a tacky-ish finish so they dont slide around when on a surface such as a pant leg or so...

also, a curved version of this would be great for a sleave version - with magnets so that you slap one on your fore-arm. could even have power/connectivity coming from wires in the garment that they attach to.

Magnets basically. Need lots.

--

what if... since the thing is so small, the actual object is the mouse? So you can choose l/r object and then just grab it and mouse about?