[lfmunoz4]

Do you remember what happened when Russia tried to install missiles in Cuba? The USA put its foot down and was willing to have a nuclear war. Same thing is happening in Russia, making Ukraine part of NATO is just too close. Why is it so hard for people to understand this?

[dragonwriter]

> making Ukraine part of NATO is just too close.

Ukraine (after abandoning efforts after the MAP rejection -- done at Russia's insistence -- in 2008) only started looking at NATO membership again after Russia invaded, so it is ludicrously disconnected from reality (but exactly representative of Russian propaganda!) to try to use that to justify the invasion.

[wtcactus]

Do you remember that started because Russia already invaded part of Ukraine in 2014?

Do you remember Russia’s promises when Ukraine voluntarily ceded their nuclear arsenal to Russia?

[lfmunoz4]

Not sure what the point you are making is? Should we just keep going back in history and try to cherry pick events to blame and justify current conflicts? That can go on indefinitely and is why we keep having wars.

[GJim]

Except NATO is a defence organisation.

Ask yourself why countries bordering Russia want to join.

[codedokode]

Well missiles on Cuba might also be intended for defense. As USSR leader wrote in a letter to US president, "you know that one cannot invade the country with missiles" or something along these lines.

[mopsi]

Nobody installed any missiles in Ukraine. As to alliances, Cuba remained an ally of the USSR until its very end in 1991.

[jsnider3]

Making Ukraine part of NATO is just something Putin made up, not an actual thing.

[CapricornNoble]

I recommend reading some of the diplomatic cables on Wikileaks https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW3127_a.html <--this one from 2008 has Russian diplomats warning about NATO expansion and Ukraine

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08KYIV1144_a.html <-- this one is about Ukrainian spending on a pro-NATO information campaign

The Ukrainian president who was anti-NATO is the one that the Euromaidan deposed. https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-scraps-nato-accession-plans/a-...

Here's France24's take in 2014 when Ukraine voted to abandon "non-aligned" status: https://www.france24.com/en/20141223-ukraine-parliament-vote... Russia’s annexation of the Crimean Peninsula and its support for the separatist insurgency appear partly rooted in fears that the Western military alliance could expand its presence on the Russian border.

Then in 2019 we have this: Ukraine President Signs Constitutional Amendment On NATO, EU Membership (Radio Free Europe, 2019) https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-signs-constitution...

Followed up by Zelensky doubling down on NATO later that same year: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-promises-nato-refe...

And then Trump sending additional lethal aid to Ukraine at the end of the year: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/12/04/trump-to-see...

My personal opinion is that these events in 2019 were the last straw for Putin. He probably made the decision to invade early in 2020....but had to pause those plans while the whole world grappled with COVID. It then took them into mid-2021 to get the ball rolling on staging their forces for invasion, and then they were delayed again due to Xi Jinping telling Putin to not fuck up his Beijing Olympics or he wouldn't get tacit support from the PRC. All of which meant that the early-2022 invasion was likely caused by NATO-related issues that were looking increasingly concerning 3 years earlier.

[layer8]

How is that related to the comment you’re replying to?