[electrograv]

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro despite its chunkier weight, since the local compute/memory of the Air is already plenty for me (and most users).

The iPad Pro proves that weight and battery life is no excuse here for the lack of state-of-the-art display tech in the MacBook Air. And as for cost — the base 14” MacBook Pro M4 (at $1600) isn’t significantly more expensive than the 15” MacBook Air M4 configured with same CPU/RAM/SSD (at $1400).

It’s really quite a shame that the iPad Pro hardware is in many way a better MacBook Air than the MacBook Air, crippled primarily by iOS rather than hardware.

[overstay8930]

I know Apple wants to differentiate ProMotion as a Pro feature, but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is.

Actual reputational damage is going on because of these poor decisions, I’m not surprised iPhones are struggling to obtain new market share. They just look like old and slow phones to most normal people now, “look how nice and smooth it looks” is such an easy selling point compared to trying to pretend people care about whatever Apple Intelligence is.

[crazygringo]

> but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is.

Are they? I'm a tech person and I can barely notice it at all. And I don't think I have a single non-tech friend who is even aware of the concept of video refresh rate.

Whenever there's something that doesn't feel smooth about an interface, it's because the app/CPU isn't keeping up.

I've honestly never understood why anyone cares about more than 60hZ for screens, for general interfaces/scrolling.

(Unless it's about video game response time, but that's not about "running smoother".)

[whynotminot]

Have never heard anyone in my life that isn’t an engineer comment on Pro Motion. Not even in an accidental sort of “hmmm why does my phone just feel faster” kind of way.

This is a feature that really only matters to the Hacker News crowd, and Apple is very aware of that. They invest their BOM into things the majority of people care about. And they do have the Pro Motion screens for the few that do.

Even I — an engineer - regularly move between my Pro Motion enabled iPhone and my regular 60Hz iPad and while I notice it a little, I really just don’t see why this is the one hill people choose to die on.

[0x457]

120Hz on Android IMO is: try once, say "damn that's smooth" and then disable to save battery life.

I only ever used Pixels as android phones, so my experience is limited to that.

[presentation]

I don’t think I have a non technical friend who is ever comparing Android phones and iPhones, let alone noticing screen differences

[turtlesdown11]

>I’m not surprised iPhones are struggling to obtain new market share

Apple has >80% of the total operating profit in the smartphone market. The new entry level phone went up in price $200. Why do you think they do/should care about market share?

[wordofx]

> but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones.

Things that never happened.

Lot of reasons to dislike. iPhone but this story isn’t true in the least.

[wlesieutre]

Rumored to change next year

https://www.tomsguide.com/phones/iphones/iphone-17-just-tipp...

Would be nice if the laptops followed suit

[petesergeant]

> I’m not surprised iPhones are struggling to obtain new market share. They just look like old and slow phones to most normal people now

Literally the only people I know with non-iPhones are:

* People who can't afford one

* People who want a folding screen

* People who are conceptually anti-Apple

Apple have over 50% market share in the US, talking about "struggling to obtain new market share" seems bizarre.

[ragazzina]

>I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro

>The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro

Well why should they, you already bought the more expensive one.

[electrograv]

I’ve considered trying an ultralight PC laptop with a superior screen. But the sad state of reality is that:

(1) Windows these days feels like a constant battle against forcibly installed adware / malware.

(2) Linux would be great, but getting basic laptop essentials like reliable sleep/wake and power management to work even remotely well in Linux continues to be a painful losing battle.

(3) Apple’s M series chips’ performance and efficiency is still generations ahead of anyone else in the context of portable battery-powered fanless work; nobody else has yet come close to matching apple here, though there is hope Qualcomm will deliver more competition soon (if the silicon’s raw potential is not squandered by Microsoft).

Just because Apple’s competition has been complacent and lagging for many years, doesn’t render irrelevant any feedback to Apple regarding what professional laptop users would like.

[stetrain]

Because some people would pay the same price (or even more) as a MacBook Pro to have a great screen in a thinner, lighter laptop that shouldn't cost Apple that much more to make.

Like how the MacBook Air was originally a premium-priced product instead of an entry-level product in Apple's lineup.

[kllrnohj]

how about because it's ridiculous that a $2200 laptop cannot correctly show photos taken by the company's own $600 phone? People mentioned being stuck at 60hz, but it's also one of the few remaining non-xdr displays that Apple offers.

[klausa]

I wish for that machine too; and the price delta between the Macs is why I expect this will never happen. And unfortunately, I'd rather spend the extra bucks than go back to 60hz.

Apple seems quite content with making 120hz a feature of "Pro" models across the line (iPads, iPhones, Macs).

[torstenvl]

Portability is a pro feature.

The truth of the matter is that Apple does not currently sell a single premium device. Every single one requires serious compromises.

[webdever]

As others have said, they do this on purpose. It's the same with memory. I'd probably switch from a Pro to an Air if I could get 64gig ram (for LLM work) but they'd rather charge me $4800 instead of ~$3200 (guessing the price given the top end 32gig Air is $2800)

It's frustrating because I'd prefer a lighter device. In fact, even the Air isn't that light compared to its competition.

I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter.

[electrograv]

I have absolutely no problem paying a premium for an upgraded display. The problem is that Apple does not offer that option for the MacBook Air.

The MacBook Pro has an amazing screen, which is why I bought the MBP. But the MBP compromises increased weight (which I don’t want) in exchange for more performance (that I simply don’t need). And we know this compromise is not needed to host a better display, as evidenced by the existence of the iPad Pro.

Don’t get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is a fantastic product and I don’t regret buying it. It just feels like a huge missed opportunity on Apple’s part that their only ultra-lightweight laptop is so far behind in display tech vs their other non-laptop products (like the iPad Pro which is lighter still, just crippled due to iOS limitations).

I would gladly pay even more than the price of my MacBook Pro for a MacBook Air with a screen on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro. Or even for an iPad Pro that runs OSX!

[brandall10]

A pro will still be a good 2.5x the speed compared to the Air due to memory bandwidth. It would be rather silly to spring for that amount of memory for that purpose, anything more than say a 14B param model will be painful.

[seanmcdirmid]

I'm not sure a Macbook Air with only passive cooling would be the best machine for running an LLM that would fit into ~40GB of GPU accessible memory.

> I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter.

You basically want a macbook pro. I don't think it could be that thin with active cooling that such a configuration would require.

[jpalomaki]

It's actually quite crazy that we need to get those bulky pro models just to get the basics like better screens and more memory. The performance between the Air and Pro is anyways pretty much the same, except for long running tasks where pro benefits from active cooling.

Wonder if we are going to see some changes here with the upcoming M5 models.

[jen729w]

How else do you propose they differentiate, given that the internals are essentially identical?

[kokada]

Hell, I would be happy if Apple at least enabled the virtualization instructions that are already available in the Mx chips inside the iPads, and allowed e.g.: something like UTM in Apple Store with Hypervisor support. It would be a good differentiator between the cheaper iPads running Ax chips vs the more expensive iPads running Mx.

Considering the powerful hardware, the form factor and the good keyboard (I have a used Apple Magic Keyboard paired with our iPad Air M2), if I could virtualize an actual Linux distro to get some job done in the iPad it would be great. But no, you are restricted to a cripped version of UTM that can't even run JIT and because of that is really slow because of that.

[gloxkiqcza]

If Apple offered macOS VM as a (paid) app for iPads I would buy one.

[adultSwim]

This is why I haven't bought an ARM Mac. Air screen is up to snuff and Pro is too heavy.

[r0fl]

Price drop

Double the ram

And yet a complaining comment makes its way to the top. This blows my mind! People will literally complain no matter what

[ProZsolt]

Doesn't matter to me if I still have to buy the chunky Pro to get a decent display.

The current Air is great as an entry level device, but there is an underserved segment here.

[HatchedLake721]

Wait until you hear that the new iPad Air doesn't give permission to run a Kubernetes cluster on it. Happens every year