[vlark]

In order to save, you need to earn enough to do so.

The average salary in the U.S. is $66,622, and the average household income is $80,610.

The average housing cost is $2,715 per month, or $32,580 a year. Average food costs for a single person are around $9,000 a year. Average total utility costs are $7,200. Average healthcare costs per person are $14,570. Average car ownership costs are $12,182 per year.

These average expenses total $75532 per year, meaning the average single person with an average salary is $8910 in debt. You can do the math for the average two-car household yourself.

And we haven't even accounted for taxes. Or the costs of raising a child.

Now, admittedly, this average person/average houshold most likely does not exist. But simply looking at averages points out the problem that most people are already stretched financially too thin to stock away something for retirement.

Over half the United States population earns less than $100k a year, and the median income for all earners (the middle point, right smack in the middle of all earners of all ages and genders) is roughly $40k.

I'm sure all you folks earning over $150k a year with stock options are doing fine, but realize you guys are in the top 20% of income earners in the U.S. whether you feel like you are or not.

[j_w]

66k/80k for income sounds like a median, whereas $2,715 sounds like a mean housing cost.

A quick search found between $1,500-$2,000 a month for median rent prices. If you adjust for a $1,600 rent, your above person is left with 3k, before considering that all the other expenditures are absolutely insane.

Options: - Live in a city, ditch the car. This gives you a $2,600 rent budget under the same other expenses. - Eat less expensive food. $9,000/year (>$8/meal) for food for a single person is high. No takeout.

People like to pretend the situation is worse than it is - some people have it bad, but tighten your purse and live less lavishly. Work on getting a better job (if you need to or can), and when you make more money don't increase expenses.

[ryandrake]

I think it takes a bit of a mindset shift. If your salary is $X, you can't start your expense plan with how much your apartment costs. There are expenses A. that are ironclad-mandatory, in that you must make them or you're really fucking yourself: Taxes and debt interest are examples. They need to come out of your salary before any other calculations are done. Your actual income (that you can spend) is $X-A. Then you have B. expenses that you have to pay, but you have at least theoretical control of by shopping around, like the cost of your apartment, cars, child care, groceries, and so on. Those come out next. Then, you have C. discretionary spending, everything left over. Often this is zero or negative :(

Too many people put retirement savings in bucket C, where it actually should be considered bucket A. It needs to come out before you even consider anything else. Your money left over after taxes, paying interest, AND savings, is what you have left to decide whether you can afford this apartment or that car.

[Volundr]

I think there are a lot of people for whom this is true, but also a lot of people for whom this is terrible advice. Your not likely to reach retirement age if you take your retirement savings out before your apartment or food and wind up evicted or starving.

[wakawaka28]

I think you've overstated housing costs, as crazy as that sounds. The places with really high rent pay more and also see people get with roommates. So the average rent/mortgage is not the same as the average person's housing expenses.

Most people cannot afford to save a lot of money for retirement, especially while paying into Social Security or other government programs. But that has never been possible in the entire world, and it generally still isn't. Even in cases where it was, such as the boomers, it still didn't really happen. To be fair the boomers fully expected that their taxes would go toward Social Security in their old age.