From the complaint "As demonstrated in the chart below,
The Ville uses the same precise RGB values for its skin tones as does The Sims Social. There is aninfinitesimally small chance that the use of the same RGB values for skin tone in The Ville as TheSims Social is mere coincidence."
Zynga could have at least tried not to make the copying so obvious.
"Not only does The Ville blatantly mimic the entire framework and style of gameplay in The Sims Social, but it so closely copies the original, creative expression and unique elements of The Sims Social — i.e., the animation sequences, visual arrangements, characters’ motions andactions, and other unique audio-visual elements — that the two games are nearly indistinguishable."
The pages marked 17-34 in the complaint contain a number of screenshots demonstrating just to what degree the "original, creative expression" was copied. Specific colors, proportions, and even action sequences appear to be nearly identical. This is most definitely not coincidence, and (as the complaint notes on page 9-12) is common practice for Zynga.
There's also the bit about hiring of EA executives (John Schappert, Jeff Karp, Barry Cottle) who had access to The Sims Social and social IP (pages 13-14).
Blatant copying, element-for-element. No derivation from the original, no ethics, no shame. Zynga is a despicable company, and I have absolutely no respect for the company itself or Pincus.
Couldn't agree more. Zynga is the biggest scam since Facbeook. Assholes like Pincus are not innovators at the least, they are just plain scumbags who are taking advantage of the boom. It's unfortunate. Especially how Pincus and others cashed out $400M+ and left investors to dry.
Zynga will face their fate, as will Facebook, a lot of people will get rich, a lot of people will lose money, but at the end of the day Zynga won't be around for long and Facebook will be the next AIM.
you forgot to add that most likely by the end of the year this empty shell will be de-listed.
edit: take a look at this: [1] - if the Chief Financial Officer dumps 50% of its Zynga stock in secondary offering, who really could believe there is any value in this trojan horse.
Not really. The Samwer brothers may not be innovators, but they are problem solvers. They solve the very huge problem of internationalisation. Zynga doesn't solve anyone's problems. They just aim to kill/leech off competitors.
Some of the stuff in the details section is pretty astounding. They've copied things as closely as the wall-height to floor size ratio. I doubt even EA thought much about that, other than selecting a size that they thought looked reasonable, yet Zynga neeeded to put effort into copying it so exactly? Why? If you're going to rip off a game, why put effort into making it so blatant?
I understand Zynga even less now.
My gut feeling on reading the headline was originally "Well, EA can't complain, Simcity Social was far more a Cityville clone than a continuation of Simcity", but wow, actually looking at the complaint is pretty damning for Zynga.
As a graphic designer, I can tell you that a detail like the wall height to tile size ratio is actually a very specifically chosen value based on a number of trade-offs and priorities, and not something easily arrived at because it just looks pretty good. Which isn't to say that a given ratio is inevitable (or that the match in this legal case is pure coincidence, it certainly is NOT), just that you may wish to be aware that you're short-changing the designers based on your lack of domain expertise.
Probably, they prototyped the game using rips of Sims assets, and as they replaced EA's art with their own they tried to keep the new elements consistent with the old ones (rather than, say, having some walls suddenly 1.3x as tall as others for no obvious reason.)
If you're not skilled enough to create something good, you're better off finding something good and copying it exactly — you're probably not qualified to understand which parts are essential and which are arbitrary. It takes guts to copy something exactly, though; most people can't resist the urge to make their mark.
Ok I'm rooting for EA in this. I think Zynga's been preying on smaller developers for years in this manner. Its about time they went head to head with an 800lb gorilla.
Zynga got its start by blatantly copying another company's game and they haven't stopped since. If there is any justice in this world they will eventually fail horribly and go bankrupt but I am not holding my breath.
Up to now they have chosen minnows who couldn't fight back but EA is a whole new ballgame.
So we're gonna side with Zynga on this because it is innovating by bringing The Sims to Facebook and EA is trying to block innovation with IP lawsuits here, right?
From my perspective, a fairy tale ending would be for EA to take Zynga to the cleaners, then cut a check to every independent label that Zynga has copied off in the past, or start some sort of fund for independent game companies. EA are still going to make a few bucks, but it will help the wider community.
This is all very reminiscent of the video game industry of the 80's, where everyone was making largely the same games and trying to figure out where they fit in the marketplace. Some lawsuits like this were successful, and others weren't. It's a tough call, though I tend to side with Zynga here.
Copyright on characters, art, text, code, and logos is great. We obviously don't want direct clones. But, Copyright applied to a genre and style of gameplay is ridiculous. We wouldn't have any of the great games we have today if those things were enforceable.
I'm not quite sure how you could mistake The Ville for The Sims. Besides both games being set in a buildable house with interactive objects, the games are largely completely different. From what I can tell, It doesn't even simulate people.
Imagine if in the 90's the makers of Dune 2 decided to sue everyone who made a game which looked like their RTS. I don't think Warcraft would have stood a chance!
They're suing for The Sims Social, not The Sims. In all honesty, I think the title should be edited to read 'The Sims Social' instead of 'The Sims'. They're very different games.
In "The making of Warcraft part 1", one of Warcraft's developers says they used Dune 2's art assets as "programmer art" during Warcraft 1's development:
Thinking about this a little more in-depth now I actually can't believe that EA hasn't filed suit earlier. Maybe they were waiting and building a stronger case? Sim City was the definitive game of the late 90s - early 2000s, CityVille is a direct rip. Now with The Ville they are ripping off even more EA products.
By no means do I like the direction EA has gone in the past few years, they are very poorly regarded game company with bad leadership, but their IP is blatantly being ripped off.
I'm glad they're fighting back and if this goes to a jury trial, which I certainly hope it does, Zynga will be done. However, I think Zynga will most likely be taken off the NASDAQ long before a trial, their assets liquidated and the company will file for bankruptcy protection.
It's a shame so many investors, VCs, and etc. invest in companies like Zynga, but they're cashing out so it's a sound investment for them.
EA knows this type of litigation is probably a waste of time, in terms of shutting down a particular game. But, it is probably at least partially a PR stunt to drive down Zynga's flailing stock price and hurt the long term outside capital outlook for Zynga. Smart move EA.
Without-a-doubt Zynga is at fault here. Those who know the way Zynga works know this was intentional, you only have to look back on the plethora of allegations against Zynga about copying other people's games and Facebookatising them to make money. As much as I loathe EA these days, nobody should have their hard earned work ripped off like that, I hope Zynga pays dearly for this. The RGB skin colour argument alone will be the end of them.
Let me point out that the only people EA seems to screw over are the people dumb enough to work for them. Zynga goes out and rips off independent third parties.
So, I would lean toward rooting for EA on this one, but not because I like EA.
Zynga is vile. But they're the good guys here, without argument. The idea that you can protect a game genre is nonsense, and terribly damaging. Imagine if Id sued Epic or Valve to kill Unreal and HL2? Imagine if Blizzard killed all the competing RTS? Imagine if Sony killed WoW?
Actually I just realized they can claim prior art. Zynga have been ripping off other games for so long without consequences that they can now claim this process is prior art...
[+] [-] dusing|13 years ago|reply
Zynga could have at least tried not to make the copying so obvious.
[+] [-] lotharbot|13 years ago|reply
"Not only does The Ville blatantly mimic the entire framework and style of gameplay in The Sims Social, but it so closely copies the original, creative expression and unique elements of The Sims Social — i.e., the animation sequences, visual arrangements, characters’ motions andactions, and other unique audio-visual elements — that the two games are nearly indistinguishable."
The pages marked 17-34 in the complaint contain a number of screenshots demonstrating just to what degree the "original, creative expression" was copied. Specific colors, proportions, and even action sequences appear to be nearly identical. This is most definitely not coincidence, and (as the complaint notes on page 9-12) is common practice for Zynga.
[+] [-] jf|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lnguyen|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KaoruAoiShiho|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duaneb|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martywomble|13 years ago|reply
Copy the image from the complaint into an image editor and look at the RGB values with the color tool. I looked and didn't see a single match.
[+] [-] ericdykstra|13 years ago|reply
Blatant copying, element-for-element. No derivation from the original, no ethics, no shame. Zynga is a despicable company, and I have absolutely no respect for the company itself or Pincus.
[+] [-] dakrisht|13 years ago|reply
Zynga will face their fate, as will Facebook, a lot of people will get rich, a lot of people will lose money, but at the end of the day Zynga won't be around for long and Facebook will be the next AIM.
[+] [-] joering2|13 years ago|reply
edit: take a look at this: [1] - if the Chief Financial Officer dumps 50% of its Zynga stock in secondary offering, who really could believe there is any value in this trojan horse.
[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/the-biggest-losers-of-zyngas-...
[+] [-] majani|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wwweston|13 years ago|reply
My understanding is that games can't be copyrighted, though:
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html
[+] [-] Macha|13 years ago|reply
I understand Zynga even less now.
My gut feeling on reading the headline was originally "Well, EA can't complain, Simcity Social was far more a Cityville clone than a continuation of Simcity", but wow, actually looking at the complaint is pretty damning for Zynga.
[+] [-] alanfalcon|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derefr|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wmf|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jlgreco|13 years ago|reply
"Here are some screenshots. Redraw them."
[+] [-] saraid216|13 years ago|reply
Honestly, it works. We can hate it as much as we like; at the end of the day, Zynga is in fact pulling in cash.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] mikeryan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SeanDav|13 years ago|reply
Up to now they have chosen minnows who couldn't fight back but EA is a whole new ballgame.
[+] [-] ben0x539|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dougabug|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leeskye|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Reebz|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Harkins|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samstave|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jconley|13 years ago|reply
Copyright on characters, art, text, code, and logos is great. We obviously don't want direct clones. But, Copyright applied to a genre and style of gameplay is ridiculous. We wouldn't have any of the great games we have today if those things were enforceable.
[+] [-] jamesu|13 years ago|reply
Imagine if in the 90's the makers of Dune 2 decided to sue everyone who made a game which looked like their RTS. I don't think Warcraft would have stood a chance!
[+] [-] Goronmon|13 years ago|reply
http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Fin...
I'd say that's pretty blatant copying there.
[+] [-] dag11|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cpeterso|13 years ago|reply
http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-...
[+] [-] dakrisht|13 years ago|reply
By no means do I like the direction EA has gone in the past few years, they are very poorly regarded game company with bad leadership, but their IP is blatantly being ripped off.
I'm glad they're fighting back and if this goes to a jury trial, which I certainly hope it does, Zynga will be done. However, I think Zynga will most likely be taken off the NASDAQ long before a trial, their assets liquidated and the company will file for bankruptcy protection.
It's a shame so many investors, VCs, and etc. invest in companies like Zynga, but they're cashing out so it's a sound investment for them.
[+] [-] jconley|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhizome|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dag11|13 years ago|reply
It definitely has a 'Sims' vibe to it.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] justjimmy|13 years ago|reply
:D
[+] [-] reidmain|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DigitalSea|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Karunamon|13 years ago|reply
Seriously. A shitty company suing a shitty company using a shitty law.
It would be impossible for me to muster any less care about these two.
[+] [-] wtracy|13 years ago|reply
So, I would lean toward rooting for EA on this one, but not because I like EA.
[+] [-] atrus|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gridaphobe|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelty|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ctz|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajross|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SeanDav|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dangrossman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] powerslave12r|13 years ago|reply