Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

[n8henrie]

Convo from 4d ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43313574

[kreetx]

Every now and then there is an alarmist article about aspartame, and every time it's hard to tell whether moderate drinking of soft drinks is better when it had regular sugar vs when it has aspartame - can any person more familiar comment on this with regarding to current article?

[anon373839]

The funny thing about this question is that it doesn’t really matter, unless it does: Sugar harms your health in a whole host of well documented ways, but a little of it, infrequently, is fine. Aspartame has always been under a cloud of doubt, but is probably also just fine in small amounts.

So really, you only need to be thinking about this if you’re having either of them as a regular part of your diet. And if that’s the case, well, this is the part where you really should listen to all those people who recommend that you acquire a taste for water.

[jadbox]

It's almost like humans are naturally tuned to drink plain unsweetened water.

[jmulho]

Gil Carvalho (Nutrition Made Simple) is a good source for these types of questions. His existing videos may not address a brand new study, but he will give you a basis for assessing the new study in the context of what is already known.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdKAPzsxr_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h5IABzlj8w

[shlant]

a good rule of thumb is to not make significant changes based on single studies - especially on mice, ESPECIALLY in regards to controversial subjects. Robust science is not built on single studies.

[ohgr]

This is why I drink water. And water with coffee in it.

[edhelas]

Just drink water or low sugar beverages.

[nisegami]

So it sounds like: 1. consuming aspartame triggers insulin release (unclear if this is novel information) 2. insulin release triggers inflammation that leads to atherosclerosis (they go into further detail on the mechanism here, which appears to be novel info)

It really doesn't seem to me like the artificial sweeteners should be the critical aspect of this finding, as this affects anything that triggers insulin release. Is there any data linking sulfonylureas with atherosclerosis? Based on this finding, one might expect that to be a consequence of their insulin releasing effect.

[elhudy]

I didn’t read the entire article and i am not a physician.

That said, your point #2 sounds incorrect - aspartame doesn’t cause atherosclerosis, it aggravates atherosclerosis. The key difference there as it relates to type 2 diabetes patients is that presumably if they had atherosclerosis as an existing condition, they would qualify for a glp-1 with cvd benefits, and not be on sulfonylureas in the first place.

[kypro]

> Here, we show that consumption of 0.15% aspartame (APM) markedly increased insulin

Most food will "markedly increase insulin", and sugary food / drinks even more so.

Obviously people should try to eat healthy and ideally avoid artificial sweeteners, but in reality people are not machines and they're not going to drink water and eat lean meat and veg every day just because that's what's best for them.

It seems to me that for most people who like to occasionally consume soft drinks that switching to a comparable artificially sweetened alternative is going to be better for you even if there are still risks.

A study titled "eating cake aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation" isn't reason to never eat cake. It's just reason to be sensible and consume in moderation.

People have been consuming artificially flavoured foods and drinks daily for decades at this point. While these things are interesting to know and consider, no one should be concerned about this unless you're consuming an excessive amount of Aspartame. And even then it's almost certainly better for you to do that than consume excessive amounts of sugar.

[lenerdenator]

I know that they've gone back and forth on artificial sweeteners over the years, but honestly, one of the best things I've done recently is switch over to seltzer water. Triggers all of the chemical receptors in the brain by repeating the "ritual" of drinking canned pop, but it's just water, so it's actually good for you. Also half the cost.

[flocciput]

I've found seltzer makes me sleepy or fatigued for some reason. Everyone I tell this to looks at me like I'm nuts but I swear it's real. I think it has something to do with the brain's expectation of calories and the subsequent lack.

[lotsofpulp]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10096725/

>People with little saliva and a habit of frequently consuming acidic beverages are at increased risk for enamel erosion. The basic recommendations are to drink water as the first choice and eat fresh fruits as an integral part of a healthy and balanced diet.

>Health professionals should motivate the population to change their behavior regarding the consumption of acidic drinks, and recommendations should be made at the policy level to discourage the consumption of sugary drinks. Interventions that would improve oral health and overall health are widely available.

[amelius]

Exposing your bladder to a lot of CO2 might not be a good idea.

[eemil]

What's with the double standard, around sugar and artificial sweeteners?

Artificial sweeteners do not need to be as safe as bottled water.

They just need to be less harmful than sugar. Which they are, because sugar is unequivocally, very very bad for you.

[simonsarris]

> because sugar is unequivocally, very very bad for you.

So all fruit is bad for you? Lactose is unequivocally bad? Even for nursing infants? How deep does "unequivocally" go exactly?

I hope you really just mean "added sugar in soda-tier quantities" when you say sugar is "unequivocally, very very bad". But I think this kind of hyperbole is part of why food science has got an awful reputation. Even the most 'enlightened' sources (and there are plenty of competing enlightened sources right now) seem unable to stop the totalizing language.

[MrMcCall]

Doesn't aspartame partly break down into methyl alcohol if it gets too hot?

I regularly drank Diet Cokes 25 years ago, and remember some batches would be "worse" than others.

And, whether from cans or plasic bottles, you're either also getting the can's lining or the plastic from the container mixed into the soda, right? I mean, it's an acidic liquid, so there is bound to be some dissolution of the lining into the fluid, by my understanding, with the more the warmer the temp.

And I do wonder what temp the bottling takes place at.

[Aloisius]

It does. There's always a little methanol. Of course, when you drink it, your body will metabolize about 10% to methanol.

Of course, there's methanol is fruit and vegetable juices and your body will metabolize pectin containing fruit to methanol too.

[mmaunder]

How well established is it that aspartame produces an insulin response? For me that’s the shocker. I don’t consume any but I’ve always suspected this. It suggests that many diet sodas, sugar free gums, and sugar free foods can contribute to insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.

[glimshe]

Over the years I got out of all carbonated drinks and excessive coffee by phasing in homebrewed black, green and herbal teas. I feel a lot healthier and my previously chronic heartburn and gastritis magically went away.

[coffeecantcode]

Yup, I was never much of a soda drinker but switching from coffee to loose leaf teas has been a huge move for me in my daily habits. I used to drink coffee until 3, 4, even 5pm and it was having negative effects on my health and sleep.

Now I just start the day with a mug of loose leaf tea and keep re-steeping it as the day goes on. By the time noon comes around there is little to no caffeine left but I still get some tea flavor as well as the hit of hot liquid my body is used to.

When at home I brew gong fu style which keeps more caffeine as I reload the gaiwan or tea pot but that’s just a preference of mine. Highly recommend Chinese/Taiwanese teas, especially Oolong if you’re looking for an alternative to coffee or soda.

[nonethewiser]

TIL aspartame is considered "healthier" because it takes far less of it in calories to achieve the same level of sweetness (~200x sweeter than sugar).

[Havoc]

Been avoiding it since day 1. At least with sugar the risks are somewhat understood.

Then again...don't drink soda so neither here not there really

[shlant]

> At least with sugar the risks are somewhat understood.

Aspartame has been studied for 50 years. The risks are very well understood. This single study on mice does not shift that.

[SketchySeaBeast]

This feels kind of like "at least I know what I'm getting with the measles".

[sambeau]

Sometimes I'm glad that artificial sweeteners taste incredibly bitter to me

[samfriedman]

    >Data and code availability
    >No original code was generated in this study.

Oh come on. I thought Cell was more strict than this.

[StableAlkyne]

It's a major problem in science, unfortunately

You see it in the computational fields too - often the best you can get is an uncommented mess of Python and Shell scripting. If you get anything at all.

The worst are those that train ML models to predict a property, spend several pages talking about how good it is... And just never bother including the model artifacts. IMO that's the stuff that should get papers rejected.

[klipklop]

In mice with their genes edited and taking in 0.15% of aspartame in their diet. How am I supposed to take this seriously?

[cynicalpeace]

The lesson again and again is to simply eat whole foods.

...cue the onslaught of wise-guy comments claiming sliced carrots aren't whole foods.

[MrMcCall]

Hundreds of housands of years of the human body's evolution should be respected, neh?

I like my day's first glass of water to have a half a lemon's worth of juice freshly squeezed into it.

My cold-brew (or occasionally espresso) coffee gets real maple syrup (no Log Cabin bullshit sugar-fest) and half-and-half or maybe whole milk.

Sometimes I mix yogurt into a mug of milk towards the end of the day.

That's the fullness of my liquids, except that which comes naturally with food.

[nonethewiser]

One does not simply eat a grocery store chain.

[tonyedgecombe]

>...cue the onslaught of wise-guy comments claiming sliced carrots aren't whole foods.

Also think of the poor, they can't afford carrots.

[dinkblam]

that aspartam is (or may be) evil is conclusive proof that ALL sweeteners are bad for you! they are the worst! all crazy people have been right!