[tg180]

This isn’t just a problem specific to German academia, it extends across the entire European academic landscape.

I've always wondered why professors and supervisors, after experiencing these abuses themselves, continue to perpetuate them.

The only explanation I've come up with is that the system naturally weeds out those who resist or speak up by stalling their careers. As a result, it selects for individuals who don’t make trouble, those who passively obey and endure even the worst forms of dysfunction.

In the end, this leads to the normalization of abuse, with people rationalizing it as "if I went through it, others should too", a way to protect their own ego.

The only thing even worse is when the abuse turns passive-aggressive: denying opportunities without ever saying it outright, hostility disguised as kindness, ambiguous and demoralizing feedback, delaying responses, making people miss crucial deadlines, assigning pointless or overwhelming tasks. They excel at this too.

If I ever had children, I would never let them attend a European university.

[disattention]

This exists in the US as well. I've personally experienced and witnessed it happen within labs at an R1 University. The accountability structures are woefully insufficient to protect students and junior researchers, and the incentives are perverse as to actually reinforce the practice.

I've seen frequently that talented technical contributors are academically handicapped because they bring too much value to the lab for them to graduate quickly. I've personally had my own funding threatened if I didn't work "at least 60 hours each week" on my ex-advisors work (which was in no way related to my degree or research interests). I was fortunate to find another advisor and funding source quickly, but most advisors are absolutely profiting in their career off the backs of their students; leveraging both carrot and stick to fuel their ambition. It's a problem of modern academia and I'm not sure how to fix it.

[throw627357]

> I've always wondered why professors and supervisors, after experiencing these abuses themselves, continue to perpetuate them.

From their perspective, it's simply about the ends justifying the means.

You've learnt that relentless pressure and extreme demands, to an extent that elsewhere in society we would call highly abusive, produce results - they did for you, or you wouldn't be there.

This goes as far as rationalizing offensive personal insults as helpful tools - negative feedback can be very motivating to a driven person.

(That's not something I made up, I heard that point made nearly verbatim from a famous Max Planck director.)

[rockyj]

Unfortunately, this is not just applicable to Europe, this is applicable in a lot of places in the world. Imagine this in a hierarchical, subversive, "elders are always right" societies in Asia (or South Asia).

[illiac786]

Ex-Abused perpetuating the abuse is a very common phenomenon, it’s how bullying in schools and armies continues to exist for example.

It’s a deeply rooted human behaviour.