While most of what goes on there hinges somewhere between vile and horrible. 4chan has a lot of good in it, plenty of times there can be surprisingly good and high quality debates.
And come on, it's where all the memes are born. That's profound. What other startup can claim to be such a big influence on western society?
PPS: sometimes they even manage to count to 10. I think the record was 100.
edit: when I say meme, I mean "A meme ( /ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena." ... I don't mean, "funny picture".
I think you (and probably many others) are conflating 4chan with its /b/ board. There are several communities with their own "ecosystem" within 4chan, even if there's some overlap of course.
Also, it wouldn't be fair to attribute all the things you've cited to 4chan only. Something Aweful contributed to the birth of many "early" memes for instance. And I think the rage comics were infamously made popular by reddit (4chan had "MS paint comics" and such).
Influence on Western Culture? Why don't you go read the news, the Patterson break-up has had more of an effect on Western culture then 4Chan could ever hope to succeed.
Some people spend way too much time on the internet; I can guarantee you that 99% of America, has no clue what 4Chan, Rage Comics, lolcats is. Anonymous and the 1% movement (but you may have to say Occupy Wall Street to the 3 million remaining people) may be the exceptions because of the media coverage.
And meme's are far from profound, humor, yes you could argue to be considered profound, but meme's? A silly time-waster at best but generally worse then a joke told among friends. You can't find a meme and share it with friends with the same impact (whether online or in person) as:
One day little girl comes home from school, "Mom, today some boy showed me his penis."
Mother exclaims "What?!"
Little girl says "Yea, and it sort of reminded me of a peanut."
Trying not to laugh, mother asks "Is that because it was so small?"
Little girl laughs says "No. Because it tasted so salty."
"loving LOLcats or rickrolling as outputs is like loving a tasty hamburger; visiting 4chan is like visiting the meat factory. At some point, it’d probably help to visit the meat factory, but that might make you go vegetarian."
This whole "4chan is vile and horrible" thing is getting old. 4chan is not /b/, and vice versa. There are a lot of boards on 4chan that are perfectly normal, with no gore threads/porn/etc.
[citation needed] on 4chan producing memes that are more than comics and cat pictures. Anonymous, sure. 1% movement? Ehh I need some proof.
"And come on, it's where all the memes are born." It is not where all of the memes are born, much less the useful ones. If you claim otherwise, please tell me what I am missing.
4chan doesn't create stuff any more, maybe back in ~2004 when it was the "primary" location to find "internet culture" that was true, but nowadays it's spread out all across the internet. Even the majority of things credited to 4chan didn't "start" at 4chan.
> edit: when I say meme, I mean "A meme ( /ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena." ... I don't mean, "funny picture"
Don't you see? The fact that meme now connotes a "funny picture" is itself a meme.
The thing that strikes me is how... Ubiquitous as it is, and at the same time, unknown to so many more. "Browsing 4chan" truly is the "reading Rolling Stone magazine" of its day. And somehow, it retains that while being huge.
I say this as someone fired for visiting it[1], and finding it impossible to get a job in the news industry a year later. Now, the news industry is hardly considered cutting edge, but people hear "now, the site has pornography, but-" and that's it. (Especially in this employer's market!)
Conversely, I applied to two tech companies over the past year, and being forthcoming as I am, I share this with them. Both were mystified at my being fired for visiting 4chan. ("What? Where do you LIVE?")
[1] I found out about the site from news coverage years ago (the NFL thing; "Don't mess with football!".) As Anonymous rose, it became interesting from a news standpoint. And yes, I casually just visited as well. I understand many consider this fire-able, and don't argue. That's kind of my point though, that divide.
I would be surprised if there wasn't an overlap between HN and 4chan (same as with SA). Being run in diametrically opposed way it fills its role rather well, I think. There is no reputation system, no limits, no censorship, etc.. This means it produces many utterly vile posts - but all of them are true expressions of people as they are, not as they pretend to be. I think people often don't appreciate this. It's not just people being dicks on the Internet, it's people saying what they think with no regard to social acceptance or basic politeness. And since there are no credentials, your posts are just that - some text and images conveying ideas. The only authority comes from the content.
"This means it produces many utterly vile posts - but all of them are true expressions of people as they are, not as they pretend to be."
A vast majority of the vile posts are people playing a game/acting out a character/aping (along with) the community. It's willfully not-in-earnest. It's crazy that people think 4chan is 'true expression'.
That's not to say that there's not truth in 4chan, it's just that it's not on the surface, it's 'another layer down'.
For example, take /fit/, the fitness board. It's full of great advice and discussion... as long as you know enough to read past the obvious bad advice that's willfully posted to fuck with people.
"but all of them are true expressions of people as they are"
I don't think you can say that. Humans are fundamentally social creatures with behaviours that are also context driven. So to characterize the dialog on 4chan as free expression is simply inaccurate. This is just a facet of behaviour in the same way that people behave in mobs or in war-time - to cite some more extreme examples.
Think of 4chan as a healthy antidote to excessive political-correctness and other wanton busybodyness.
"This means it produces many utterly vile posts - but all of them are true expressions of people as they are, not as they pretend to be."
I'm not sure that that really makes sense. I can be very charming or utterly vile. Are you implying that I'm only truly me when I'm vile (for example)? Aren't we all pretending all the time?
> all of them are true expressions of people as they are, not as they pretend to be.
/b/ and 4chan in general is vile because it is supposed to be vile. They are supposed to rip into everything, that's their schtick. It's a series of one-upmanship attempts all for teh lulz. It basically is just people being dicks on the internet. Every once and a while a discussion breaks out.
The 'truth' about 4chan comes out in their hatred of animal cruelty, how much of a fanbase MLP found there, the beginning of the Chantology group and basically the acts of social conscience that burst from there. These things are diametrically opposed to the vileness of 4chan, yet they started there. The horribleness of 4chan is the majority pretending.
Moot really deserves praise for sticking around for 8 years and keeping the site running. I can imagine a lot of people giving up after a couple of years.
Considering the somewhat objective nature of a lot of 4chan's content I am surprised it is where it is now. Very interesting article, I really enjoyed reading the history behind 4chan, will be interesting to see where the site heads next.
Many years ago I rewrote the 4chan wikipedia article, and got it to featured level. It appeared on the Main Page a few years later, but by then I had lost interest. It's nice to see it's still in good shape, though not as popular as the site itself - http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/4chan
4Chan is known for this: it has the best and the worst of the Internet.
After some time lurking, your brain acquires the skill of filtering threads that it thinks are worthless, without even polling your consciousness. As you develop this ability, you learn to appreciate the best in 4Chan, and it's really good.
I don't know anyone else from there but as far as I'm concerned, I am a normal person in everyday life and I never mention it. I just want to have a good time when I am bored, like many users there.
So it's important to try to filter the content. This site is rather unique for letting users do almost whatever they want without consequences. Some people abuse it but they won't waste it for me: the dogs bark and the caravan goes on.
[+] [-] Swizec|13 years ago|reply
* lolcats
* rage comics
* anonymous
* a lot of the 1% movement
* getting random people in jail because they think animal cruelty is funny
* making Moot TIME's person of the year and getting him a TED talk -> http://www.ted.com/talks/christopher_m00t_poole_the_case_for...
While most of what goes on there hinges somewhere between vile and horrible. 4chan has a lot of good in it, plenty of times there can be surprisingly good and high quality debates.
And come on, it's where all the memes are born. That's profound. What other startup can claim to be such a big influence on western society?
PS: 4chan has also invented a clever sorting algorithm - http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1295544154
PPS: sometimes they even manage to count to 10. I think the record was 100.
edit: when I say meme, I mean "A meme ( /ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena." ... I don't mean, "funny picture".
A lot of responders misunderstood this, I think.
[+] [-] simias|13 years ago|reply
Also, it wouldn't be fair to attribute all the things you've cited to 4chan only. Something Aweful contributed to the birth of many "early" memes for instance. And I think the rage comics were infamously made popular by reddit (4chan had "MS paint comics" and such).
[+] [-] RollAHardSix|13 years ago|reply
Some people spend way too much time on the internet; I can guarantee you that 99% of America, has no clue what 4Chan, Rage Comics, lolcats is. Anonymous and the 1% movement (but you may have to say Occupy Wall Street to the 3 million remaining people) may be the exceptions because of the media coverage.
And meme's are far from profound, humor, yes you could argue to be considered profound, but meme's? A silly time-waster at best but generally worse then a joke told among friends. You can't find a meme and share it with friends with the same impact (whether online or in person) as:
One day little girl comes home from school, "Mom, today some boy showed me his penis." Mother exclaims "What?!" Little girl says "Yea, and it sort of reminded me of a peanut." Trying not to laugh, mother asks "Is that because it was so small?" Little girl laughs says "No. Because it tasted so salty."
[+] [-] listic|13 years ago|reply
-- Danah Boyd (retelling her friend's saying)
http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2010/06/12/for-the...
[+] [-] joshu|13 years ago|reply
That was actually me. I suggested it to Chris Anderson originally.
(Also, the memes=funny pictures thing drives me nuts. But then again I started memepool.com in 1998 or so...)
[+] [-] nateberkopec|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mej10|13 years ago|reply
"And come on, it's where all the memes are born." It is not where all of the memes are born, much less the useful ones. If you claim otherwise, please tell me what I am missing.
[+] [-] citricsquid|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vampirechicken|13 years ago|reply
Don't you see? The fact that meme now connotes a "funny picture" is itself a meme.
[+] [-] rockyleal|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samstave|13 years ago|reply
I HATE them.
[+] [-] codexon|13 years ago|reply
Isn't this just relying on the scheduler which is probably a minheap?
[+] [-] trentlott|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] borlak|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jeffool|13 years ago|reply
I say this as someone fired for visiting it[1], and finding it impossible to get a job in the news industry a year later. Now, the news industry is hardly considered cutting edge, but people hear "now, the site has pornography, but-" and that's it. (Especially in this employer's market!)
Conversely, I applied to two tech companies over the past year, and being forthcoming as I am, I share this with them. Both were mystified at my being fired for visiting 4chan. ("What? Where do you LIVE?")
[1] I found out about the site from news coverage years ago (the NFL thing; "Don't mess with football!".) As Anonymous rose, it became interesting from a news standpoint. And yes, I casually just visited as well. I understand many consider this fire-able, and don't argue. That's kind of my point though, that divide.
[+] [-] dnpfwfyuta|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Paul_S|13 years ago|reply
Here's to another billion.
[+] [-] sofuture|13 years ago|reply
A vast majority of the vile posts are people playing a game/acting out a character/aping (along with) the community. It's willfully not-in-earnest. It's crazy that people think 4chan is 'true expression'.
That's not to say that there's not truth in 4chan, it's just that it's not on the surface, it's 'another layer down'.
For example, take /fit/, the fitness board. It's full of great advice and discussion... as long as you know enough to read past the obvious bad advice that's willfully posted to fuck with people.
[+] [-] smackay|13 years ago|reply
I don't think you can say that. Humans are fundamentally social creatures with behaviours that are also context driven. So to characterize the dialog on 4chan as free expression is simply inaccurate. This is just a facet of behaviour in the same way that people behave in mobs or in war-time - to cite some more extreme examples.
Think of 4chan as a healthy antidote to excessive political-correctness and other wanton busybodyness.
[+] [-] jgrahamc|13 years ago|reply
I'm not sure that that really makes sense. I can be very charming or utterly vile. Are you implying that I'm only truly me when I'm vile (for example)? Aren't we all pretending all the time?
[+] [-] mhurron|13 years ago|reply
/b/ and 4chan in general is vile because it is supposed to be vile. They are supposed to rip into everything, that's their schtick. It's a series of one-upmanship attempts all for teh lulz. It basically is just people being dicks on the internet. Every once and a while a discussion breaks out.
The 'truth' about 4chan comes out in their hatred of animal cruelty, how much of a fanbase MLP found there, the beginning of the Chantology group and basically the acts of social conscience that burst from there. These things are diametrically opposed to the vileness of 4chan, yet they started there. The horribleness of 4chan is the majority pretending.
[+] [-] dhimes|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tumult|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] risratorn|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unkoman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zitterbewegung|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DigitalSea|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mproud|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wtracy|13 years ago|reply
My employer's content filter blocks Phoronix, but still lets 4chan through.
I have no words.
[+] [-] path411|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ghiculescu|13 years ago|reply
Many years ago I rewrote the 4chan wikipedia article, and got it to featured level. It appeared on the Main Page a few years later, but by then I had lost interest. It's nice to see it's still in good shape, though not as popular as the site itself - http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/4chan
[+] [-] TazeTSchnitzel|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] devcpp|13 years ago|reply
After some time lurking, your brain acquires the skill of filtering threads that it thinks are worthless, without even polling your consciousness. As you develop this ability, you learn to appreciate the best in 4Chan, and it's really good.
I don't know anyone else from there but as far as I'm concerned, I am a normal person in everyday life and I never mention it. I just want to have a good time when I am bored, like many users there.
So it's important to try to filter the content. This site is rather unique for letting users do almost whatever they want without consequences. Some people abuse it but they won't waste it for me: the dogs bark and the caravan goes on.
[+] [-] m_for_monkey|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] january14n|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brador|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Sodaware|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ionwake|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rnernento|13 years ago|reply
inb4 this is hacker news not 4chan inb4 be polite
[+] [-] rnernento|13 years ago|reply