US Marines to get high-speed, radar-evading electric seagliders for rescue ops

[icegreentea2]

Ha, I love the "rescue ops".

This will not primarily be for rescue ops. This will be for supporting Marine standin operations on and within the first island chain. The marines have been trying to figure out how they can handle sustainment and logistics in that environment.

You can read some wonkish article about this (back in 2022) https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/sustainment-of-the-stand-i... . You'll note that the article does suggest revisiting seaplanes as a distribution option.

With a few hundred miles range, these craft would be suitable as one way island to island hoppers, or 2 way over the horizon ship to shore transports. For a sense of scale, its ~140 miles from Luzon to Scarborough Shoal (one of the contested islands in the South China Sea).

The "Viceroy" craft that Regent has mocked up on their website claims 180 mile range, 3500lb of cargo / 2 crew + 12 passengers.

EDIT: And to be clear, the article title says "to get", but the article makes clear, this is basically a testing and development contract. There's no certainty that the Marines will get this capability in any meaningful way. Probably better to replace with "to test". This is particularly important because the commercial version of this craft is also still in development and testing.

[mlyle]

> This will not primarily be for rescue ops

It seems like combat SAR in the maritime environment is what these are best at.

> The "Viceroy" craft that Regent has mocked up on their website claims 180 mile range, 3500lb of cargo / 2 crew + 12 passengers.

This is like 1/4th the size needed for minimum scale sustainment and support. Not to say that it won't be used for that in a pinch or for special operations, but it's pretty limited. Of course, there's been talk about building huge ones.

[jdiez17]

> Ha, I love the "rescue ops".

> This will not primarily be for rescue ops.

It's a common meme in dual use tech. When you apply for funding you mention "search and rescue applications" and people know what's up.

[mmooss]

While I'm sure the US military sees the obvious possible logisitical solution for the island chains - and I've read them saying that in the past - that doesn't mean there's something deceitful going on here.

Before you make national security depend on a new, developing technology, and one that is also in limited supply, you give that technology a simpler, smaller mission to try it out and to develop it. That is, they don't want control of the first island chain to depend on Regent Craft all-electric sea gliders quite yet.

[timewizard]

> With a few hundred miles range

180 mile range, 180 knot speed, needs recharging infrastructure at both ends of the journey. This is a toy with very little operational utility.

[maxglute]

Well TBF they will be likely primarily used to "rescue" marines off suicide deployments in 1IC. Marine haphazardly rebranded themselves into MLR / littoral regiment, AKA NMESIS missile battery uber drivers for Pacific theatre to stay relevant. But anyone with half a brain saw how proposal was not sustainable one way mission for crayon eaters. 12 passengers + 3500lb cargon won't reinforce much, i.e. replenish couple Naval Strike Missiles... but likely just supplies to keep the people going, but more realistically it's good for evacuating whose left + body bags because region is going to be saturated with PRC fires. This glider proposal is consoling marines MLR that yes, their rebranding / new conop/conemp isn't terminally stupid, there is an exit plan after hopefully the NMESIS squeeze off their shots, assuming they survive PRC drones/missiles etc.

[tylerflick]

I laughed when I saw the article photo combined with the headline. The Marines will be island hopping in Higgins boats again before these are adopted.

How long did it take it for the Osprey to make it into service?

[ge96]

Would be a cool life, you operate a converted PBY Catalina that is a cargo plane and you bum around ferrying stuff

[djfivyvusn]

Ww3 is gonna be wild.

[meigwilym]

> This will not primarily be for rescue ops.

The "radar-evading" rather gives the game away.

[JR1427]

This is like the old Soviet Ekranoplans [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan

[EA-3167]

It will have many of the same issues too, common to all ground-effect sea planes, namely that wave height, rogue waves, weather conditions, and the ability of pilots to remain highly focused will be major limiting factors.

[acc_297]

From the wiki I take it they have yet to build and fly a full-sized prototype

"A 1/4 scale model was successfully demonstrated in 2022 in Narragansett Bay"[1]

Also I assume radar-proof is just because it's a ground effect vehicle that will never fly high enough to show up on radar it certainly doesn't look all angular like a stealth bomber. In which case my bicycle is also radar-proof?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REGENT_Viceroy

[icegreentea2]

They just started testing a full scale prototype like at the start of March. https://www.regentcraft.com/news/regent-begins-sea-trials-of...

They've done boat mode tests, but they haven't flown yet.

[vonmoltke]

> Also I assume radar-proof is just because it's a ground effect vehicle that will never fly high enough to show up on radar it certainly doesn't look all angular like a stealth bomber. In which case my bicycle is also radar-proof?

From the way the article is worded, it does seem the author is only considering air search radar with this claim. Without low observability features, this will show up on surface search and surveillance radars. There might be an initial period where some radars fail to register it because they reject it as a possible target due to its kinematics. If craft like this become common, though, the signal processing algorithms will be updated to handle them. Most can already deal with very low-flying helicopters anyway.

That said, just because it isn't angular doesn't mean it doesn't have low observability features. Radar absorbing material would still make it harder to detect. So would more subtle elements of the physical design. I don't think "radar-proof" in that section header is justified, though.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> Also I assume radar-proof is just because it's a ground effect vehicle that will never fly high enough to show up on radar

My guess is yes. Simply because the Caspian Sea Monster [1] was "the largest and heaviest aircraft in the world from 1966 to 1988", not at all stealthy looking, and simultaneously also "undetectable to many radar systems, as it flew below the minimum altitude of detection."

So yes, a much smaller craft will also be hard to radar. Notwithstanding that the tech has moved on at both the "detect" and "don't be detected" ends of the contest.

As I understand it, it's also easier and safer to fly these craft now, as they are computer-stabilised, which the 1960s design could not have been. And therefore easier and safer to fly them lower. (The Caspian Sea Monster "was destroyed following a crash caused by pilot error." )

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster

[Rygian]

I wonder why the title clarifies "for rescue ops".

Is there anything inherent to this technology that prevents it from being used for anything else? The article body insists on "demonstrations relevant to specific defense operations" which sounds quite broad and not limited to rescue ops in any way.

[philipwhiuk]

It sounds less aggressive.

[nilamo]

- Very fast - avoids radar/detection - water based

My first assumption is that this is for stealth ops. "Rescue" doesn't need those features.

[1970-01-01]

It's too low to do anything else. Snipers would decimate an entire attack squadron.

[nsiemsen]

It's a YC W21 company!

https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/regent

[calmbonsai]

Wow, that's quite the "mission pivot".

We already have all-electric trainers like the Bye eFlyer https://byeaerospace.com/ so I can see this "working", but I'm not certain how effective it would be compared to something as well-tested as the "stealth" version of the MH-6 helicopter that's been in production for about a decade.

Additionally, the basic non-stealth MH-6 airframe and power-plant configuration has been around since the 1960s so its base flight characteristics are well-known.

[fidotron]

Ground effect vehicles could be the thing that's needed to make drone based delivery a reasonable thing to do, especially around lakes. It's one of life's perennial disappointments that such things only get done in military terms and under the ludicrous notion they are rescue vessels.

[nradov]

That's never going to happen. Only a tiny fraction of the population live directly on lakeshores, and basically no warehouses. If drone based delivery is going to work then they'll have to fly out of ground effect to avoid structures and trees.

The main advantage of ground effect vehicles is lower fuel consumption over long distances. That's not a priority for the short range battery powered drones used by delivery services.

[m4rtink]

I think drone based delivery is a solved problem by now, thanks to the very rapid developments in the last 2 years ?

Some of the drones are now even fiber optic guided and thus resistant to jamming by the competition!

[CapricornNoble]

So they are just at Phase 2 of developing prototypes with the Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory? Ok, that explains why I've not heard/seen any deployment plans for these things within the next 5 years out here....which probably means if we do get them, we'll get them too late to influence the war with China over Taiwan.

Other comments are correct that the Corps isn't even close to solving the contested sustainment/logistics problems here in the First Island Chain, or in the South China Sea.

These seagliders are a nifty solution to the signature management issues, but their payload is tiny. We need the ability to move pallets of munitions or other cargo.

[foxyv]

Low altitude is no longer a viable strategy for evading radar. Especially with the advent of datalink enabled satellite and other forms of downward looking radar. The propellers show up on pulse doppler like a flashing emergency light. Especially over the ocean with so little ground clutter.

[bluesounddirect]

is this a ground effect machine?

[SideburnsOfDoom]

"seaglider" is apparently a new word for ekranoplan. The difference is, the new ones tend not to be so enormous [1].

See e.g. https://www.regentcraft.com/seagliders/viceroy and https://www.hawaiiseaglider.org/what-is-a-seaglider

It's the same craft with a different paint job

Yes, they are Wing-in-Ground craft

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster

[EA]

"Our vehicle, called a seaglider, is an all-electric, wing-in-ground-effect craft that operates within a wingspan of the water's surface and couples the speed of an airplane with the operating cost of a boat."

[llm_nerd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXE0UTHnV5g

It is a ground effect vehicle.

[ein0p]

Are they drone evading though? Because if not, then this is a waste of time and taxpayer money. Literally any idiot can 3D print a drone capable of defeating tens of millions of dollars in military hardware from 15-20 miles away. We're not in Kansas anymore.

[hnav]

3D print a drone that will intercept a 180mph vessel from 20 miles away? You should consider putting together a prototype, I can only imagine you'd receive funding.

[natmaka]

Ében-Émael on Sea!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_%C3%89ben-%C3%8...

[650REDHAIR]

Seeing YC-backed companies turn into DoD contractors makes me a little sick to my stomach.

[lttlrck]

$4.75mln seem like a great deal for a working prototype?

I'd love one of these in MS Flight Simulator or DCS.

[zombiwoof]

Hello Greenland