[theropost]

My take on all this is that everyone seems focused on the U.S. dollar’s dominance, the empire, trade deficits, and exchange rates. And sure, there’s some validity to that, but the real issue, or really the real goal, is getting people back to work.

You might not see it, and maybe I don’t fully see it either, but as office workers, bureaucrats, and technologists staring at screens all day, we’ve lost sight of the fact that America no longer produces like it used to. Yes, there are still people out there working with their hands, feeding the country, and running small industries. But broadly speaking, the U.S. relies heavily on other countries for complex manufacturing — for actual building. Shipbuilding is just one obvious example. A lot of critical industries have withered to the point where they can't even meet domestic demand, let alone compete globally. Meanwhile, other countries are pushing forward in tech, producing better, more efficient, more productive products — and pulling ahead.

It’s not happening all at once. It’s a slow decay. Generational knowledge industrial skills, trades, machinists are all fading. And when those go, the backbone of resilience and self-sufficiency starts to collapse. A nation that can’t produce can’t stand. Export power becomes a dream.

And I think part of the issue is that we’ve become lazy. People don’t want to work anymore — they want things handed to them. Entitlements, bonuses, luxury homes, multiple cars, the works. But someone has to build all that. Someone has to maintain the food supply. Someone has to assemble the vehicles. Someone has to keep production alive. Yes, technology can help fill gaps, and we’ve done amazing things — and still do — but America’s edge in tech? That’s slipping away. China has surpassed the U.S. in key areas of advanced technologies, auto manufacturing, aerospace, and absolutely obliterating in shipbuilding. U.S. industry? Ashes in many places.

So what’s the answer? Unfortunately, hardship. Nobody likes to say it, but raising prices and tightening the belt forces people to make hard choices. And when that happens, the jobs that matter won’t be office jobs or desk jobs — they’ll be builders, machinists, welders, factory workers. Producers. And those jobs will start commanding the wages. People who’ve been unemployed or living on subsidies will be pushed — or pulled — back into that kind of work. Slowly, painfully, maybe, but steadily. And maybe, just maybe, we’ll rebuild that base. Maybe industry will return. Maybe factories and production will grow again.

That’s the end goal here; even if we don’t like how it’s being done. Even if it’s painful. Even if it doesn’t work the way it’s intended. Because maybe we’re not as strong as we think we are. Maybe we fail. It’s happened before — look at the USSR collapse. It was a fake economy built on fake production and apathy. They endured 20 years of hardship, and they’re still trying to catch up.

So yeah, that’s where I think we’re headed. Is Trump the guy to do it? He’s doing it. Someone had to. Is it the right way? I don’t know. Is it going to work? No clue. Will we succeed? Who knows. Or maybe we just keep punting the problem further down the road; business as usual — until it breaks completely.

But either way, the path forward is either a slow crumble followed by a rebuild, or a brutal reset with the hope of rebuilding something stronger on the other side.

That’s just my two cents.

[bregma]

Not one single job was moved offshore by a foreign country. Every single one was moved offshore by an American business looking to reduce costs and increase the quarterly bottom line.

Now they're run out of jobs to move offshore and they're looking to the government for the next handout. This time, it's by adding a new tax on Americans on what they buy from overseas.

The people to blame for the economic problems are rich Americans, and the solution is to increase taxes on poor Americans, but the story is that the problem is foreign devils and the solution is to make them pay. The misdirection is working and the magic trick is successful.

[chasd00]

> Not one single job was moved offshore by a foreign country. Every single one was moved offshore by an American business looking to reduce costs and increase the quarterly bottom line.

That’s something I haven’t thought about. Is there a 25% tariff on importing knowledge work? In the consulting world that would make onshore teams more competitive. Well you’d need about a 500% tariff to make it close.

[0x00cl]

> Every single one was moved offshore by an American business looking to reduce costs and increase the quarterly bottom line.

> This time, it's by adding a new tax on Americans on what they buy from overseas.

If adding/increasing tax on product oversees increases the costs of said products, wouldn't American business look to reduce cost by moving back to America?

If I understand correctly that's what Trump is trying to do.

[pavl-]

"A nation that can’t produce [physical goods] can’t stand."

Based on what evidence?

"And I think part of the issue is that we’ve become lazy. People don’t want to work anymore"

Americans work more hours per week than a majority of countries. Low-paying factory jobs are off-shored because they're low-paying.

"So what’s the answer? Unfortunately, hardship."

You probably should do more research on the subject, and successful onshoring regimes that have been implemented by other countries. If you, for e.g., determine that America needs to produce a certain quantity of semi-conductors to insulate from various natsec risks, there are ways to tackle that problem and usually they don't involve hoping an onshore industry magically appears because you've haphazardly shivved trade across the board.

[SJC_Hacker]

> And I think part of the issue is that we’ve become lazy. People don’t want to work anymore — they want things handed to them. Entitlements, bonuses, luxury homes, multiple cars, the works. But someone has to build all that. Someone has to maintain the food supply. Someone has to assemble the vehicles. Someone has to keep production alive. Yes, technology can help fill gaps, and we’ve done amazing things — and still do — but America’s edge in tech? That’s slipping away. China has surpassed the U.S. in key areas of advanced technologies, auto manufacturing, aerospace, and absolutely obliterating in shipbuilding. U.S. industry? Ashes in many places.

It has nothing to do with "people being lazy" and everything to do with poorly-run companies combined with globalization.

This started in the 70s/80s with American auto manufacturers. The Japanese cars were much more fuel efficient and a much more robust build. The line worker wasn't responsible for that, management is.

Then the global free trade / NAFTA in the 90s. Ross Perot was as popular as he was, because a big segment of the US population saw this coming.

[rainsford]

That all seems built on some romantic notion that a job making physical objects ("working with their hands") is fundamentally better than a job providing a service ("staring at screens"). But it's not obvious there is a lot of factual support for the idea, either on the level of individual jobs or the economy as a whole. You could certainly use protectionist barriers or subsidies to try to force industries like ship building back to the US, but would the US really be economically better off overall if you did so?

That said, it's really irrelevant since Trump's current approach isn't looking to support specific industries or outcomes, it's just across the board tariffs on everything. We're not just going to have to build our own ships or cars, but grow our own coffee and bananas. Targeted, strategic tariffs and subsidies on the industries we want to support could be arguable, but this is not that.

[omnee]

The US can use internal policies to support the industries and skills you mentioned. Tariffs as implemented, and greatly damaging longstanding relationships with allies, will have the opposite effect. The existing lead in services will be lost, consumption will drop, and the increase in production of goods due to tariffs won't offset it. I would recommend you read the outcome of the Smoot Hawley tariffs.

[ozmodiar]

I hate this mindset that Americans are lazy, they are usually some of the hardest working people in the globe. The wealthy are greedy, and wealth and power continue to concentrate at the top while infrastructure, working conditions and public services crumble. I don't fault anyone for not wanting to contribute to that, quite the opposite. I don't see how the jobs you mentioned are going to start commanding better wages when everyone has to rush to do them because there are no more options.