[_tom_]

No one seems to be talking about the fact that we need to change the definition of cheating.

People's careers are going to be filled with AI. College needs to prepare them for that reality, not to get jobs that are now extinct.

If they are never going to have to program without AI, what's the point in teaching them to do it? It's like expecting them to do arithmetic by hand. No one does.

For every class, teachers need to be asking themselves "is this class relevant" and "what are the learning goals in this class? Goals that they will still need, in a world with AI".

[chrisvalleybay]

I believe we need to practice critical thinking through actual effort. Doing arithmetic by hand and working through problems ourselves builds intuition in ways that shortcuts can't. I'm grateful I grew up without LLMs, as the struggle to organize and express my thoughts on paper developed mental muscles I still rely on today. Some perspiration is necessary for genuine learning—the difficulty is actually part of the value.

[oerdier]

Critical thinking is not a generic/standalone skill that you can practise targetedly. As in, critical thinking doesn't translate across knowledge domains. To think critically you need extensive knowledge of the domain in question; that's one reason why memorizing facts will always remain necessary, despite search engines and LLMs.

At best what you can learn specifically regarding critical thinking are some rules of thumb such as "compare at least three sources" and "ask yourself who benefits".

[moi2388]

Indeed. The problem however, is that they write papers with AI (and will also do so when working for a company), but it’s riddled with falsehoods.

So you make them take exams in-class, and you check their papers for mistakes and irresponsible AI use and punish this severely.

But actually using AI ought not to be punished.

[chii]

> It's like expecting them to do arithmetic by hand. No one does.

But those who traditionally learnt arithmetics have had this training, which _enables_ higher order thinking.

Being reliant on AI to do this means they would not have had that same level of training. It could prevent them from being able to synthesize new patterns or recognize them (and so if the AI also cannot do the same, you get stagnation).

[lordnacho]

I suspect schools spend a lot less time on arithmetic than they used to, however.

You used to _actually_ need to do the arithmetic, now you just need to understand when a calculator is not giving you what you expected. (Not that this is being taught either, lol)

You can get to the higher order thinking sooner than if you spent years grinding multiplication tables.

[aprilthird2021]

> It's like expecting them to do arithmetic by hand. No one does.

Don't all children learn by doing arithmetic by hand first?

[tgv]

That's such an irresponsible take. If you don't know how to program, you can't even begin to judge the output of whatever model. You'll be the idiotic manager that tells the IT department to solve some problem, and it has to be done in two weeks. No idea if that's reasonable or feasible. And when you can't do that, you certainly can't design a larger system.

What's your next rant: know nead too learn two reed and right ennui moor? Because AI can do that for you? No need to think? "So, you turned 6 today? That over there is your place at the assembly line. Get to know it well, because you'll be there the rest of your life."

> For every class, teachers need to be asking themselves "is this class relevant" and "what are the learning goals in this class?

That's already how schools organize their curriculum.

[nneonneo]

That's brilliant!

I mean, arithmetic is the same way, right? Nobody should do the arithmetic by hand, as you say. Kindergarten teachers really ought to just hand their kids calculators, tell them they should push these buttons like this, and write down the answers. No need to teach them how to do routine arithmetics like 3+4 when a calculator can do it for them.

[djmips]

I'm not sure you aren't being a little bit sarcastic but essentially that's true.

[Ekaros]

And don't everyone have smartphones? So why not just use OCR to read things. No need to learn to read. Just use speech recognition and OCR.