[fergal_reid]

Strongly agree.

This seems to be very hard for people to accept, per the other comments here.

Until recently I was willing to accept an argument that perhaps LLMs had mostly learned the patterns; e.g. to maybe believe 'well there aren't that many really different leetcode questions'.

But with recent models (eg sonnet-3.7-thinking) they are operating well on such large and novel chunks of code that the idea they've seen everything in the training set, or even, like, a close structural match, is becoming ridiculous.

[namaria]

All due respect to Simon but I would love to see some of that groundbreaking code that the LLMs are coming up with.

I am sure that the functionalities implemented are novel but do you really think the training data cannot possibly have had the patterns being used to deliver these features, really? How is it that in the past few months or years people suddenly found the opportunity and motivation to write code that cannot possibly be in any way shape or form represented by patterns in the diffs that have been pushed in the past 30 years?

[simonw]

When I said "the thing I am doing has never been done by anyone else before" I didn't necessarily mean groundbreaking pushes-the-edge-of-computer-science stuff - I meant more pedestrian things like "nobody has ever published Python code to condense and uncondense JSON using this new format I just invented today": https://github.com/simonw/condense-json

I'm not claiming LLMs can invent new computer science. I'm saying it's not accurate to say "they can only produce code that's almost identical to what's in their training data".