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snehk | 10 months ago

> Yet to many Europeans the idea that free expression is under threat seems odd. Europeans can say almost anything they want, both in theory and in practice.

A journalist in Germany was just sentenced to seven months for posting a meme of a politician where she holds up a sign saying "I hate free speech".

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nancy-faeser-afd-...

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croes|10 months ago

He didn't post a meme, he posted a altered picture which made it look like the politician really said that.

That's called defamation.

Just because he later claimed it's satire doesn't make it satire.

Ukv|10 months ago

I believe this is the picture in question (and original): https://www.gbnews.com/media-library/nancy-faeser-photo-befo...

Seven months for that seems insane to me. It looks far more like a meme/satire than an attempt to create a realistic fake, given it's just pure-black impact font and an implausible message ("I hate freedom of speech!") to be holding up on a sign.

EasyMark|10 months ago

It should still be a civil case.

fabian2k|10 months ago

That decision might be overturned later, I'd also consider it very questionable. It's in a weird space as it was about libel, but based on edited text in a photo like often used for memes. I think that decision is wrong based on what I know about it, it should be clear enough that this is not a direct quote.

Not defending this specific decision, but you can find individual cases like this in the US as well. Overall the laws in Germany are somewhat more restrictive in certain areas, but I don't think that fundamentally affects free speech.

lm28469|10 months ago

> sentenced to seven months

Which he will do exactly 0 months because it's a suspended sentence. Still crazy but nowhere close to "7 months of prison for a meme"

PS: Didn't the US just deport people to a foreign prison because they had tattoos ?

closewith|10 months ago

That’s actually pretty close to “7 months of prison for a meme”.

snehk|10 months ago

> "7 months of prison for a meme"

Quotation marks are usually used if you quote someone. Not if you make up additional things in your head that a person supposedly said.

pseudony|10 months ago

Would be better to offer specifics so people can actually look into it rather than take what YOU took from it on face value.

Journalists typically write, not draw. Was there an article ? On which grounds was the journalist sentenced ? So on, so on.

spiderfarmer|10 months ago

It's a suspended sentence and Germany has clear laws against defamation, those laws applied here. Saying "it's just a meme" doesn't make it so.

lopis|10 months ago

And Germany has taken its stance on Gaza to extreme levels, where publicly defending Palestine's right to exist can cause you to lose your visa. So yeah, things could be better in the free speech area.

ben_w|10 months ago

> And Germany has taken its stance on Gaza to extreme levels, where publicly defending Palestine's right to exist can cause you to lose your visa

In practice, even on this website, I have great difficulty figuring out how to phrase anything I want to say on Palestine and Israel in a way that's not likely to induce vitriol.

Heck, neither could Yitzhak Rabin, in his position as Israel's Prime Minister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

--

Hmm, I've just noticed something: you say "Germany", but some of the news I've been seeing from the USA is people losing their visas by supporting Palestine…

pjc50|10 months ago

This is going to be the whataboutery Olympics, isn't it.

That particular case seems egregious, especially the jail part (edit: oh, it's a suspended sentence, so zero jail time). On the other hand a world where news organizations can just photoshop any sign onto any politician and claim they support whatever doesn't seem great either.

But neither does using ICE to snatch people off the streets for making social media posts. (Someone will reply to this with some variant of "oh, but they're immigrants, they don't deserve the freedom to criticize the US", and then we're back at the whataboutery Olympics)

Perhaps it's only worth getting worked up about free speech when the speech is true, authentic and accurate?

(epilogue: this whole topic was at the top of HN for about a minute before it got flagged off, lol)

redczar|10 months ago

That last paragraph is nicely stated. I’m going to borrow it.

All societies regulate speech. There is no such thing as free speech in the literal/absolute sense of the word. Probably every society has an instance that someone can point to as stifling speech. Your phrasing succinctly gets to the crux of the matter.

spiderfarmer|10 months ago

The law is pretty clear. If there was the smallest indication it was satire, he wouldn't have been sentenced.

ghusto|10 months ago

This is false.

He posted a doctored image to make it look like that, which is a completely different thing, and should definitely be punishable.

moefh|10 months ago

> The court concluded that Bendels had altered the lettering and deliberately created the impression that the Interior Minister had made a corresponding statement on freedom of expression.

> [...]

> What is left unmentioned, however, is that the trial only took place because Bendels previously refused to pay a fine of 210 daily rates imposed by the same district court in November.

So I don't see "sentenced to seven months for posting a meme of a politician where she holds up a sign saying 'I hate free speech'".

What I see is "mislead people into thinking the politician said something she did not, and then refused to pay the fine imposed by the court".

seydor|10 months ago

Germany needs to amend their unfree speech laws , it's like a self-inflicted punishment now. The world is not asking for them to do that anymore

watwut|10 months ago

In the sense that USA wants Germany to become far right nazi country again, yes. Otherwise, no.

spiderfarmer|10 months ago

And you speak for "the world"?

I for one am pretty happy every law that curbs racism. It has worked great so far. The people that play victim are just cosplaying and looking for attention.

isolli|10 months ago

German politicians are known for lodging countless complaints for the slightest insults online. [0]

The 60 minutes segment was also quite revealing of the (in my opinion, poor) state of free speech in Germany. [1]

As Bill Maher said, "Germany is so afraid to look like their Nazi past, that they're knocking on people's doors, taking people's phones and computers if you insult people online."

[0] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/gewalt-gegen-poli...

[1] https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1891282394440732787

froidpink|10 months ago

source?

InsideOutSanta|10 months ago

It's a defamation case. Journalist David Bendels posted a doctored picture of politician Nancy Faeser holding up a sign saying, "Ich hasse die Meinungsfreiheit" ("I hate freedom of speech"). Faeser filed criminal charges against Bendels for "üble Nachrede und Verleumdung" (defamation).

Bendels was sentenced to a 7 months suspended sentence and a fine of 1500 Euros, has to remove the image and apologize to Faeser. Bendels will appeal the decision.

I'm going to guess that this will be overturned on appeal. Every country has stupid courts that make bad decisions. I think this is kind of an edge case between satire and defamation, since Bendels is ostensibly a real journalist who reports on real facts—it seems odd to me that he would publish doctored pictures. Still, I think this will lean towards satire in the end, since I don't think most reasonable people would assume the picture of Faeser was real.

You can read about it here (German):

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/nancy-faeser-erwirkt-...

graemep|10 months ago

I do not know about that but people have had police raids for calling the head of the german Green Party an idiot: https://www.ft.com/content/27626fa8-3379-4b69-891d-379401675...

The Online Safety Act in the UK has been discussed here before and it is part of a general trend to prevent "harmful" speech including specifically "legal but harmful speech".

mvdtnz|10 months ago

No, a journalist was given a suspended sentence for intentionally spreading misinformation about a politician.