[searealist]

There are two axes here:

- Beans

- Roast level

The variation from roasting is far greater than the variation from the beans, and all third-wave beans are lightly roasted. This results in a brew that is dominated by acids.

[noirbot]

I was with you up until "all third-wave beans are lightly roasted". I suppose it's literally true relative to old espresso roasts, but there's still plenty of third-wave roasts that are decently dark. Maybe not Folgers/Lavazza dark, but you can definitely find more oily/heavy roasts that aren't overly acidic.

There's also a third axis in brew technique - most old-school espresso is only vaguely the same brew method as what you'd get at a third-wave shop where the newer machines have fairly precise temperature, flow, and pressure controls, as well as more consistent grinds with less fines.

[searealist]

Here the first sentence of Third-wave coffee's wikipedia page:

> Third-wave coffee is a term primarily in the United States coffee industry emphasizing higher quality, single-origin farms and light roast to bring out distinctive flavors.

I also strongly suspect your definition of "decently dark" is still below a medium roast. If not, I would be interested if you could cite a "decently dark" roast you have tried from a third-wave coffee shop.

[pyfon]

Also percolation method (ristreto vs. espresso) and roast date.

Some people say grinder too (I haven't really got into the conical vs. flat)

This is assuming the basics are right i.e. machine temperature and pressure, dialing in, good grinder.

Then if you add milk the provenance and we'll keptness of that is a factor.