[mobtrain]

This comment would be 60 times more helpful if in addition to your strong opinion on the failures of learning with Duolingo it’d supply some of the good alternatives.

[Hamcha]

As someone learning Japanese I'm really appreciating tools built for JP specifically: Renshuu and Wanikani. Both use SRS (same as duolingo) but spend a considerable amount of time actually teaching the grammar and nuances, they both avoid starting from everyday phrases like "I would like sushi" to instead build a foundation first, and many other little things that make it a much nicer experience than Duolingo who's trying to use a very generic approach that maximises small term satisfaction in exchange for painful long term learning.

[mobtrain]

I was under the (possibly incorrect) impression that Renshuu was very beginner unfriendly and WaniKani skips the most basic stuff (hiragana et al) and is “just” to learn kanji which ofc is important. Was I wrong?

[NetOpWibby]

I’ve always wanted to learn Japanese, thanks for the tips!

[Tor3]

My learning finally picked up speed again when I started using CCI (Compelling Comprehensive Input). How easy it is to find material differs a lot between languages. Way way back in time I learned English that way, though I didn't think of it as "learning" back then - I was so focused on what is now called "compelling input".

However, you'll need some kind of foundation, otherwise it'll be hard to find anything to start with. Though at the language school my wife attended the teachers had methods for that too, when there weren't any common language to "teach" in. Show and tell, basically. Point down and say "This is a table". Point away and say "That is a window". And so on. The Krashen initial method basically, though the one teacher I talked to had never heard about the guy.

When I started Japanese I didn't use textbooks or classes, I used an app called "Human Japanese", which teaches structure and a little grammar, but mostly through show and tell. No conjugation tables or other boring stuff. It quickly gives you enough to start acquiring other material. My own huge mistake was to switch to Duolingo.

[Aachen]

I'm trying to look up what this CCI thing is, but I don't seem to get further than simply "use the language". Do you have a good resource that explains how to apply the method or, if applicable, an example of a CCI course?

[makingstuffs]

Yeah, I really don’t get all the hate towards DuoLingo on this site. Granted, it isn’t going to make you fluent alone but it is very good at keeping you sharp and getting your feet wet.

Name one sole app/course which will teach you absolutely everything there is to know about a given subject. There are none. All learning needs multiple avenues in order to be effective.

Even if you take part in a course with tutors they will you to practice out of the course and in your own time. Personally I found DuoLingo to be extremely helpful in getting the basics of Hindi down.

[frank20022]

Because duolingo is designed for addiction (that's how they make money), not actual learning (learning would mean you'd stop using the thing, no good for stakeholders).

There is no sole app that makes you go from 0 to C2, but there are infinitely superior tools that actually make you learn, and not the self-complacent pretend-like-learning pastime that duo is.

For a start, almost every other app succeeds at not treating you like a toddler and not resorting to emotional manipulation.

[apwell23]

I agree i can speak passable spanish with my wife's family. i learnt exclusively on duolingo.

I don't know if its the best way but it kept me motivated to come back and put in some work in a fun environment. which i belive is the biggest problem to solve for any sort of learning.

[myaccountonhn]

I agree, for me Duolingo was great to learn the basics of Spanish, enough so that I could move on and practice in real life.

[sudahtigabulan]

I think the pre-internet ways are just fine - textbooks, phrasebooks, other kinds of books geared towards self-learners.

With them, one must be just a little bit more proactive, though.

You can also sign up to in-person classes.

[watwut]

Pre-internet ways failed to teach language super often. Very frequent issue when learning from book was that you could not not understand anything people say, because you imagined the language to sound much differently then it does for months and months while learning. That was the most common result of language learning attempts - not much.

Language learning is one of the things that were genuinely made much more effective by the internet and streaming services. The input based learning methods were basically impossible pre-internet for most people. And these are very effective.

[shawabawa3]

I think books are probably the worst way to learn a language

I learned French and my experience from best to worst ways to learn were:

1. 1-1 lessons with language teacher (by far the most effective way to learn)

2. audio lessons (Michel Thomas Method)

3. Visiting France a lot, interacting with French people (my wife is french) (and yes, for me this was less impactful than listening to audio lessons)

4. Duolingo (did a year of doing it daily, did almost nothing for me except a bit of vocab)

5. School (3 years of French in school was about equivalent to listening to 5 hours of Michel Thomas audio lessons)

[jamager]

Italki, LingQ, Languagetransfer, StoryLearning...