I miss the days when new coins at least attempted to pretend they contain some sort of financial innovation. There was at least a possibility of something of substance there.
Now it's all celebrity endorsement, hype and lies.
And having the US prez jump on that bandwagon and ride it while in office is just mind-boggling.
IIRC this was an available bet on Polymarket, where bitcoiners kept insisting it already happened, ever since the executive order was issued, but that's crypto folks for you. (I didn't look up how and whether that resolved)
I was a big enough believer in crypto to literally start a company in this space only to leave it completely disenchanted and deeply pessimistic about the direction of the industry. I felt that there were many real legal and regulatory challenges that governments just didn't want to deal with. No government wants to enable money laundering, black markets, corruption and terrorism; or so I thought!
Now we're in a situation that's so much worse than I ever imagined -- Trump coins are vehicles for naked bribery and corruption with a sprinkle of encryption on top. I was worried about black markets, Trump has literally been using his office to grant access to top holders of his scam coin.
This is a big lesson for everyone about why some degree of regulation is necessary.
+1 to this - exactly the same experience. I started a company in the space because I believe that the decentralized technology and its ability to have world impact is truly amazing.
But after spending ~2y in the space, I realized another thing -- the people in this space right now are in it purely for speculation and monetary gains. There's a lot of talk about decade long horizons, but any app that achieves pmf in the short to medium term has to cater to the speculators or die.
We chose not to go down the path of launching a coin or doing speculative stuff, even though the demand for it was intense. We hit some PMF around creators, but didn't have the conviction that it would scale without speculation. A year down the line, I believe that was the right pov to have.
>No government wants to enable money laundering, black markets, corruption and terrorism; or so I thought!
what ever gave you that thought? There are countries that do this right out in the open. The rest of the countries do it in various shades of gray to not be right out in the open, but still visible for those that can see in higher bit depths of gray than black and white
John Adams told us the Constitution is intended for a moral (or virtuous) people.
The point is the law isn't self enforcing. People have to insist upon Constitutional order, not because of (blind) faith in it, but because the alternative is tyranny. Not anarchy.
Does this country deserve Constitutional order? The People abandoned it by electing someone virulently and openly opposed to it.
The regulation you seek is utterly meaningless in an autocracy. Or even in a unitary executive theory of Constitutional order.
But in the specific case of Trump, among the most untrustworthy liars America has produced, what does Constitutional duty mean to him? What does it mean that he took the oath of office? He said the words but no serious person believes he took an oath.
People still have no idea what we've done. And what is yet to come.
The POTUS is a psycho. And the replacements aren't good people either.
100 days down, 1369 to go. It's going to get much worse.
> This is a big lesson for everyone about why some degree of regulation is necessary.
I really wonder how you come up to that conclusion especially that there is more than a degree of regulation. If regulation will not apply for the top anyway, then it's better to remove all regulation.
That this is even remotely surprising to anybody is the only surprising thing about it. He took bribes via his hotel last time. He takes massive donations from Bezos and Zuck and others to his inauguration fund or presidential library or whatever other slush funds he can use to skirt anti-bribery regulations.
The fact that Bitcoin (and kin) turbocharges corruption, and its success is a direct result of doing so on a wide scale (the whole point is to undermine state power by dwpriving it of control over currency) is proof to the armchair economist Bitcoin supporters that it is "sound money" and things like facilitating a market for circulation of child porn at one end and open political grift at the other, are welcomed as signs that the *experiment" is working as intended in their winner-corrupts-all bitcoin maximalist worldview.
Its called kleptocurrency for good reason.
Those who support it on philosophical grounds will destruction on everyone else for the sake of their own gain, and should be viewed with all possible hostility as they constitute an intentional community of public enemies in the plainest possible sense.
“Under the company’s rules, the Trumps and other World Liberty investors are not allowed to sell their coins on the open market, though the company has said it might eventually lift that restriction if other buyers of the coin agree.”
I don't see much references to "the swamp" anymore now that we have a sitting president doing a crypto grift. I thought dark money and mysterious figures pulling the strings is conspiracy worthy but I guess not when it's Trump.
Well, he drained the swamp, now he's doing what he does best, paving it over and building a soon-to-be-failed casino.
Say what you will about "the swamp" (not a big fan myself), but as a metaphor it kinda works since a swamp may be noxious and filled with unsavory swamp creatures... but it's still an ecosystem where competition and co-evolution amongst these swamp species in response to external environmental changes would still be expected.
Or, the conspiracies have been proven true, but it's not with those who the conspiracy-lovers would have expected. Not woke, not Soros, but Trump and his gang were running the exact racket. So I suppose now suddenly the racket is good, doublethink by the book.
as a "crypto" enthusiast, this is sad to see that he is making this industry looking really bad - obviously he doesn't care, money is money. In the future, maybe even now, we are going to have those associating crypto to Trump ..
The lack of regulations in crypto make these scams legals without any fear of any repercussion
The thing is though, once you regulate crypto then what’s the point? You are left with a highly inefficient/expensive and immutable database.
Bitcoin solves (or attempts to solve) for exchange in absence of trust and regulation. But this is a stupid thing to solve for, because without trust and regulation you can’t even have a functioning society.
Some people believe Trump is accidentally advancing things by revealing what needs to be banned. Money in politics, transactional diplomacy with aggressive states, powers of the Executive incautiously delegated by Congress, etc. Cryptocurrency is now on that list. Maybe we should call for a halt until we figure out what’s going on.
No, the current system does not work for most of the people hence the "just nuke it" option sounds like a rational one.
Canadian elections show that people can change their mind overnight, but unfortunately some of the changes that happened in the US institutions and the global relations will take decades to reverse (if ever).
> This is all because they don’t like immigration?
You could spend an entire college semester discussing how and why.
Immigration is the current scapegoat for the effects of a hollowed out middle class, though.
It's not new and it's far more broad than that. The staggering government corruption and incompetence has been ignored for decades. You can't just pretend that this is suddenly new and one sided if you want to solve the problem.
A elite that fights social welfare as socialism, while at the same time removing the middle class and handing the lower classes infinite competition. Nobody cares about who the elite pretends to care for, nobody cares about corruption, they want to see that house burn down, like theirs was torched. The sounds of humanism the enemy makes, are irrelevant, as the sound of compassion made while doing nothing.
How did you feel about the Biden family’s blatant corruption? Do you really think that Hunter Biden was an amazing artist and brilliant corporate energy sector lawyer that is just falling on hard times now like the rest of us? It’s a weird coincidence that he can’t sell his paintings anymore now that his Dad isn’t politically relevant anymore.
Joe’s brother has also made a lot of money off of questionable government contracts.
Edit: to clarify further, in the context of the reply below -
The thing that's particularly bad about this comment is that it pours scorn on a group of people that is defined by their class and intellect, which is just the kind of sentiment we don't want to see on HN. By all means, criticize politicians and others in power. Let's not scapegoat people at the very bottom of the heap for all the ills of the world.
The creation of the trump coin is a signal to the crypto community that the SEC will stop going after crypto companies. I have read alot of people who ended up going into crypto and some even getting lucrative investment from Andreeson horowitz, lightspeed, etc etc. And then one day, they get a letter in the mail saying they are now a Politically Exposed Entity (PEE). Then all of their banks drop them, they can't get credit and they can't get loans. The SEC put out a letter saying "Come work with us", and when the founders tried, they would become a PEE instantly. There was no recourse with the SEC, and many smart people ended up completely losing their lives. The only way they could get back to 'real' life, was by trying to go into a different industry and 'avoid the eye' which was, who knows?
Now, as the trump + melania coin acting as a grift, instead of "alternative funding mechanism". I mean, you could already 'donate' directly to the president, and even get a tax writeoff for it. Atleast this way you'll have to pay capital gains. You could already pay $1m to get a audience with the president, how is this any different? Hunter Biden made multi-million dollar deals, and got paid 50k a month for a being on various boards... despite being a known drugie.
the "Top 200 holders" get a dinner with the president. Not saying it's better or worse, just saying it's pretty much the same thing that every president has had access to.
It's not that i entirely believe all of this, but i would like to provide some counter weight to all the comments that are all just parroting "Grift".
Shouting over and over again, “This is normal” doesn’t make something morally acceptable.
If any of this is (arguably) normal we should tear down the systems that support these norms. They are bad norms. The solution is never, “Welp, people are corrupt, what can you do?” You start making changes in the legal system. Because if you don’t you’re giving the country away as though there were no other course of action.
> I mean, you could already 'donate' directly to the president, and even get a tax writeoff for it.
What? Campaign donations are not tax exempt.
> Hunter Biden made multi-million dollar deals, and got paid 50k a month for a being on various boards... despite being a known drugie.
Musk is also a "known druggie"; his ketamine habit is self-admitted, and he smoked pot on Rogan. (Briefly risking his contracts, even!)
> the "Top 200 holders" get a dinner with the president. Not saying it's better or worse, just saying it's pretty much the same thing that every president has had access to.
Not in the slightest. There are legal limits on how much money you can give the President.
[+] [-] biglyburrito|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Havoc|10 months ago|reply
Now it's all celebrity endorsement, hype and lies.
And having the US prez jump on that bandwagon and ride it while in office is just mind-boggling.
[+] [-] cmurf|10 months ago|reply
Seems like what's happening is unsurprising. A nation of spectators, not citizens.
[+] [-] ethbr1|10 months ago|reply
I'd suspect there will be a lot of room for "non-official acts" charges related to Trump's pump-and-dump crypto schemes after he leaves office.
And fewer politicians are going to have incentive to stick with him then.
[+] [-] bgwalter|10 months ago|reply
https://www.theverge.com/news/646426/a-1-million-per-head-di...
Is the Sovereign Bitcoin Fund bailout scam still on the table or is Bitcoin doing well enough so that it isn't needed any longer?
[+] [-] immibis|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] antifa|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] revel|10 months ago|reply
Now we're in a situation that's so much worse than I ever imagined -- Trump coins are vehicles for naked bribery and corruption with a sprinkle of encryption on top. I was worried about black markets, Trump has literally been using his office to grant access to top holders of his scam coin.
This is a big lesson for everyone about why some degree of regulation is necessary.
[+] [-] viksit|10 months ago|reply
But after spending ~2y in the space, I realized another thing -- the people in this space right now are in it purely for speculation and monetary gains. There's a lot of talk about decade long horizons, but any app that achieves pmf in the short to medium term has to cater to the speculators or die.
We chose not to go down the path of launching a coin or doing speculative stuff, even though the demand for it was intense. We hit some PMF around creators, but didn't have the conviction that it would scale without speculation. A year down the line, I believe that was the right pov to have.
[+] [-] dylan604|10 months ago|reply
what ever gave you that thought? There are countries that do this right out in the open. The rest of the countries do it in various shades of gray to not be right out in the open, but still visible for those that can see in higher bit depths of gray than black and white
[+] [-] cmurf|10 months ago|reply
John Adams told us the Constitution is intended for a moral (or virtuous) people.
The point is the law isn't self enforcing. People have to insist upon Constitutional order, not because of (blind) faith in it, but because the alternative is tyranny. Not anarchy.
Does this country deserve Constitutional order? The People abandoned it by electing someone virulently and openly opposed to it.
The regulation you seek is utterly meaningless in an autocracy. Or even in a unitary executive theory of Constitutional order.
But in the specific case of Trump, among the most untrustworthy liars America has produced, what does Constitutional duty mean to him? What does it mean that he took the oath of office? He said the words but no serious person believes he took an oath.
People still have no idea what we've done. And what is yet to come.
The POTUS is a psycho. And the replacements aren't good people either.
100 days down, 1369 to go. It's going to get much worse.
[+] [-] citizenpaul|10 months ago|reply
There's an old saying that goes something like there is crime, there is organized crime and there is government.
[+] [-] csomar|10 months ago|reply
I really wonder how you come up to that conclusion especially that there is more than a degree of regulation. If regulation will not apply for the top anyway, then it's better to remove all regulation.
[+] [-] cruzcampo|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] VeejayRampay|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mmastrac|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] bediger4000|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] alistairSH|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] basejumping|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] conception|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] ChainOfFools|10 months ago|reply
Its called kleptocurrency for good reason.
Those who support it on philosophical grounds will destruction on everyone else for the sake of their own gain, and should be viewed with all possible hostility as they constitute an intentional community of public enemies in the plainest possible sense.
[+] [-] instagib|10 months ago|reply
I have heard this one before.
[+] [-] techterrier|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] faustocarva|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] cruzcampo|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] hypeatei|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] gooseus|10 months ago|reply
Say what you will about "the swamp" (not a big fan myself), but as a metaphor it kinda works since a swamp may be noxious and filled with unsavory swamp creatures... but it's still an ecosystem where competition and co-evolution amongst these swamp species in response to external environmental changes would still be expected.
[+] [-] LadyCailin|10 months ago|reply
OR they aren’t ignorant, and are fully aware of things, and instead are scum.
[+] [-] soco|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] whyage|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] dboreham|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] WinstonSmith84|10 months ago|reply
The lack of regulations in crypto make these scams legals without any fear of any repercussion
[+] [-] angusturner|10 months ago|reply
Bitcoin solves (or attempts to solve) for exchange in absence of trust and regulation. But this is a stupid thing to solve for, because without trust and regulation you can’t even have a functioning society.
[+] [-] sigwinch|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] yalogin|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] whatever1|10 months ago|reply
Canadian elections show that people can change their mind overnight, but unfortunately some of the changes that happened in the US institutions and the global relations will take decades to reverse (if ever).
[+] [-] lenerdenator|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] baby_souffle|10 months ago|reply
You could spend an entire college semester discussing how and why. Immigration is the current scapegoat for the effects of a hollowed out middle class, though.
[+] [-] txcwg002|10 months ago|reply
[+] [-] nine_zeros|10 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] PicassoCTs|10 months ago|reply
A elite that fights social welfare as socialism, while at the same time removing the middle class and handing the lower classes infinite competition. Nobody cares about who the elite pretends to care for, nobody cares about corruption, they want to see that house burn down, like theirs was torched. The sounds of humanism the enemy makes, are irrelevant, as the sound of compassion made while doing nothing.
[+] [-] _mlbt|10 months ago|reply
Joe’s brother has also made a lot of money off of questionable government contracts.
[+] [-] cruzcampo|10 months ago|reply
It's ridiculous how the US has gone downhill since.
[+] [-] joejoo|10 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] m00dy|10 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mexicocitinluez|10 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tomhow|10 months ago|reply
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
Please don't fulminate.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: to clarify further, in the context of the reply below -
The thing that's particularly bad about this comment is that it pours scorn on a group of people that is defined by their class and intellect, which is just the kind of sentiment we don't want to see on HN. By all means, criticize politicians and others in power. Let's not scapegoat people at the very bottom of the heap for all the ills of the world.
[+] [-] TrapLord_Rhodo|10 months ago|reply
Now, as the trump + melania coin acting as a grift, instead of "alternative funding mechanism". I mean, you could already 'donate' directly to the president, and even get a tax writeoff for it. Atleast this way you'll have to pay capital gains. You could already pay $1m to get a audience with the president, how is this any different? Hunter Biden made multi-million dollar deals, and got paid 50k a month for a being on various boards... despite being a known drugie.
the "Top 200 holders" get a dinner with the president. Not saying it's better or worse, just saying it's pretty much the same thing that every president has had access to.
It's not that i entirely believe all of this, but i would like to provide some counter weight to all the comments that are all just parroting "Grift".
[+] [-] ordinaryradical|10 months ago|reply
If any of this is (arguably) normal we should tear down the systems that support these norms. They are bad norms. The solution is never, “Welp, people are corrupt, what can you do?” You start making changes in the legal system. Because if you don’t you’re giving the country away as though there were no other course of action.
[+] [-] ceejayoz|10 months ago|reply
What? Campaign donations are not tax exempt.
> Hunter Biden made multi-million dollar deals, and got paid 50k a month for a being on various boards... despite being a known drugie.
Musk is also a "known druggie"; his ketamine habit is self-admitted, and he smoked pot on Rogan. (Briefly risking his contracts, even!)
> the "Top 200 holders" get a dinner with the president. Not saying it's better or worse, just saying it's pretty much the same thing that every president has had access to.
Not in the slightest. There are legal limits on how much money you can give the President.