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Illotus | 10 months ago

Ribbon was better for most people who didn't have all the shortcuts in muscle memory. It is much more discoverable.

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SoftTalker|10 months ago

I find its discoverability is terrible. I am always hunting for what I want to do and it's never anywhere that seems to me to be sensible. I usually end up doing a google search for what I want. Perusing the ribbon takes me much more time than just looking at the various options under the old style menus.

Also traditional menus had some traditional standards. Once you learned what was under "File" or "View" or "Insert" or "Format" it was often pretty similar across applications.

CrimsonCape|10 months ago

Logically, users have to learn the name of the tool before performing any sort of geographical associations (which menu, symbol, etc to find the tool).

There is no faster discoverability than O(log(N)) search using the letters of the name as a lookup.

The biggest failure of modern operating systems is failing to standardize this innate reality.

Windows,Linux,etc should have 1. keyboard button to jump to search box 2. type 1-2 letters and hit enter. Operating systems and applications should all have this kind of interface.

The most ironic apps have a ribbon named something like "Edit" but then the most used "edit" command lives in an unrelated ribbon.

allears|10 months ago

Anecdotal evidence from myself: Although I've been using Word for many decades, I've never had much "muscle memory" in terms of accessing features. It was always a case of learning which pulldown menu held the required function.

When the accursed ribbon came along, "discoverability" went out the window. Functions were grouped according to some strange MS logic I could never understand, and it takes me twice as long to format a page as it used to. Now, I basically just use Word for text entry, and if I want an elegant format, I use a graphic design app like Illustrator.

Judging from what I've read online, you may be the only person who actually likes the ribbon.

mcswell|10 months ago

Hieroglyphics are the opposite of "discoverable". That's why they became uninterpretable for almost two thousand years, until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. And even then it took considerable work to figure out how they functioned. In the Ribbon, in order to discover what some hieroglyph does, you have to mouse over it. Since there are lots of hieroglyphs there, that's a lot of mouse-over. And no, the Ribbon's images make no sense in 99% of the cases.

hedora|10 months ago

That might have been true for the first five minutes of using the software (assuming the person had not yet used a CUA application before the first time they used office). After that, it was strictly worse.

CUA ~= "standard menus + keyboard shortcuts for dos and windows": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access

layer8|10 months ago

The Ribbon is more difficult to visually grep for me than the classic menus. Not to mention that a number of functions are still hidden in mini-menus in the Ribbon.

It wouldn’t be so bad if keyboard navigation was as good as with the classic menus, but having to press the Alt key separately, and general increased latency, kills it.