[elbasti]

Last year I took a smartphone holiday for 4 months (switched to a dumbphone). It was a fantastic time and I regret "falling off the wagon" and getting a smartphone again.

I noticed a huge number of benefits, but one of the most surprising was that it forced me to confront a number of difficult decisions.

There were a few times in which I was bored (waiting at the passport office, sitting on a plane) in which I started to think about decisions I had to make that were very difficult in ways that caused me anxiety: firing a person I'm good friends with, shutting down a company, stuff like that.

I realized that ordinarily I would simply refuse to engage with the decision: I'd get on my phone or "get busy" somehow and so simply postpone thinking about the issue indefinitely.

But when you're stuck at the passport office for 2 hours with nothing to do, you can't but help think about the thing that is top of mind, anxiety be damned.

For someone that is prone to anxiety around certain topics (conflict avoidance, "disappointing" people, etc) having times in which I was forced to engage with the topic had truly enormous benefits.

[crystal_revenge]

> you can't but help think about the thing that is top of mind, anxiety be damned.

This really captures what I think is the main problem with our state of being constantly distracted: it feels at first like a relief from anxiety, but ultimately results in even small anxieties never properly being dealt with. The end result is a vicious cycle (or I guess virtuous if you sell online ads) of becoming more and more anxious causing us to rely more and more on the screen to distract us, which in turn only increases that backlog of anxiety.

I see this happen in a lot of younger people that are constantly on screens: they frequently mention their need to "chill for a bit" and yet spend most of their time doing nothing but staring at a screen. It's clear that they are living in a lukewarm vat of anxiety that they can't face while staring at a screen, but also one which causes them immediate stress when they do look away.

[aDyslecticCrow]

The anxiety does hit you back when in bed trying to sleep. I notice a vast difference in my ability to fall asleep if I've gone on a walk with a podcast in my ear vs just silently walking with my thoughts.

[soupfordummies]

>"It's clear that they are living in a lukewarm vat of anxiety that they can't face while staring at a screen, but also one which causes them immediate stress when they do look away."

which sounds a whole lot like a word that starts with "a" and ends with "ddiction"

[aziaziazi]

> it feels at first like a relief from anxiety, […] which in turn only increases that backlog of anxiety.

That’s exactly what’s describe in a book [0] I finished last week about addiction to nicotine. That book made the quit process easy by making you believe there’s nothing good about smoking, even the social aspect. They circle through every supposed advantages and disassemble one by one. There’s a few official rewrites for quitting "bad" sugars and taking good habits, not sure how they perform.

0 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Easy_Way_to_Stop_Smoking

[Tade0]

That is basically what psychiatrists have been saying about the topic.

Humans need downtime to process emotions - in the olden days there was a lot of menial work which served this purpose, but we automated most of it since, freeing time for more productive, but stressful activities.

Meanwhile looking at screens allows one to leave all that for later. Unfortunately unprocessed emotions don't go away - they pile up.

I've been using this to gauge how well I'm doing mentally and address whatever issues there might be. My ideal state is that of a chimpanzee who was finally let outside after years in captivity which, upon leaving the building where it was kept, just stares at the sky.

[unfitted2545]

it mimics drug addiction, that same cycle can often happen with cannabis.

[npteljes]

I came to the very same conclusion - I need "empty time" to reflect, and prepare myself for my own life. For me, it was not smartphones, it started with books when I was a child, and continued with music players and alcohol later. Everything to keep the unwanted thoughts and feelings at bay. I am an excellent daydreamer as well, at times of stillness, I find something to "work on" in my mind.

What I ended up with is literally a time of day where I "sit with myself" and just think about things. I just sit down for some minutes and try to get my bearings on where I am in life right now. Also, I eliminated a lot of background noise and music - I often do menial things without any other distractions for example. Good opportunities to think about something deep.

[painted-now]

For me that's when I take a shower. I think I take showers way too long, but it's just a thing I enjoy and I think through many topics then. Sometimes I am sad that I cannot take notes during the shower, but if I could, maybe I would be back to square one.

[neuralRiot]

I believe one of the side effects of the loss of “empty” time to reflect is that people tend to rush decisions even when there’s time enough to think it through, as it were more important to take a quick decision rather than a good one.

[namaria]

Meditation is such a superpower. It costs nothing - not even time when you realize through meditation that there is no such thing as time, and emptying your mind is a great way to be in the now - it's "easy" in the sense that you don't really need to know anything, just let go of things. Letting go is tricky because we tend do engage with it in an active way and that's already grabbing on to something. Letting go is the opposite of doing anything.

Learning to just sit still and let the universe (including whatever your mind does) flow around you... It makes a huge difference in mental health. It really cannot be overstated how beneficial for humans it is to just have downtime and do literally nothing but breathing.

But I know it's hard. Our whole culture is predicated upon being busy. But we can just put everything down and be empty for a bit every once in a while and it is so beneficial.

[r0fl]

I absolutely hate running, my cardio sucks and I like to lift heavy multiple times per week.

But when I run I don’t bring anything, no music no phone just a watch to track speed and time.

I get all my best thinking done during those runs. I run slow and it hurts and it never improves but I go for 1-2 hours just so I can get more disconnected thinking done

[lc9er]

Same. Running or walking. Sometimes I make a point of thinking/feeling through recent times and processing those thoughts and emotions. Other times, I treat it as a moving meditation, and try to clear my mind when thoughts enter.

Either way, I find I feel much better when I take a break from screens, news, and podcasts, and give my mind time to do its thing.

[robocat]

A couple of times recently when I've not pulled out the phone, I've ended up having an interesting chat with somebody nearby.

Be open to having others talk with you by having an inviting look. And perhaps recognize when others are being inviting and feel out if they seem keen on yakking.

Imagine a subculture developing where some people just recognize other sociables. Maybe we need masonic-like rings or something else to identify us as welcoming random conversion.

Concentrating on your phone is as much of a conversation stopper as headphones.

[nonethewiser]

I think it also encourages socialization. Chatting with someone instead of being engrossed in your phone.

I did a screen time detox a few years back. After hearing a similar idea about needing to get to boredom sometimes and not just escaping to a device. Only used a computer for work and exclusively worked on it, then no screen time whatsoever. Maybe lasted 3 weeks or so and made me more interested in stuff like reading, drawing, etc.

[tmnvix]

Very similar to my experience.

From time to time I follow a policy of 'no idle screen time'. Essentially this means if I am using a screen I must have a definite purpose in mind. It really cuts down on how much time I spend on my phone or computer in general, but ironically increases the amount of work I get done (I work almost exclusively on a computer).

Some benefits I noticed after a short while include feeling much calmer (low level feeling of anxiety largely absent), actually actively listening to music again (instead of just using it for background noise), reading books again (even renewed my library card after 10+ years), keeping a more organised home, eating better, getting more exercise, and organising more time to spend with friends and family.

[ekianjo]

> Chatting with someone instead of being engrossed in your phone.

Everyone else is already glued to their screens so it makes it really awkward to start a conversation

[sspiff]

I've tried this a couple of times, and the only things I miss are:

- Navigation (can be solved with a dedicated device, but it's a lot less convenient) - A good camera at all times (I used to not care about this, but it's become more important now I have kids) - Mobile payments (pretty essential in my country, not all places accept cards or cash)

In every other aspect, it was a net positive in my life to get rid of my phone.

[redeux]

This is what's held me back as well, but I recently discovered the Minimal phone which is an android phone with all the things you mentioned, but with a less distracting e-ink display.

https://minimalcompany.com/

(I'm not affiliated with minimal company in any way, nor have I actually tried the phone)

[elbasti]

I found the truly irreplaceable apps to be:

- Uber

- Banking

- Google Maps

For a camera, I suggest buying a real, standalone camera (I have a fuji x100). The photos it takes are VASTLY better than an iphone. For something smaller that fits in a pocket, people say great things about the Ricoh GR III.

Unfortunately, I found that being out without a smartphone did cause certain anxieties for me: What if I forgot about an appointment? What if I get an urgent email or whatsapp?

The answer would be having an actual assistant (ie, a secretary). Someone I could call to order me an uber or look up a restaurant, and someone who could call me to say "hey, X just sent you a whatsapp message that seems pretty urgent."

I that an AI powered assistant that communicates via phone or text could be a great use for AI and something I hope to code up whenever I have some spare time.

[s3graham]

I'm trying this strategy at the moment. https://www.shesabeast.co/the-diy-dumbphone-method/

The main things I needed to remove are the web browser and email client to make it ~ a dumbphone. I don't find myself wasting time staring at maps, or a weather app, or a calorie tracker, or camera/photos so I don't feel there's any reason to forgo those. (YMMV of course!)

[nullc]

I have a smartphone that runs signal, the phone app, the camera app, and a mapping app. Why not do the same?

I have never logged into anything except signal on a phone. I haven't removed the browser but I don't have any interest in using it and have only used it to look up wikipedia stuff while traveling and what not. If I did feel some temptation to web browse on it I could remove the browser.

I find it surprising that anyone wants to browse on their phone, I find the tiny screen infuriating.

[snoopertrooper]

I’d like to inform you that I share your same anxieties. I read a book called “Difficult Conversations” (Patron, stone, heen). It didn’t remove all the anxiety, but it gave me A framework to lean on to get started, which was half of the stress. I think it will always suck having to fire people you like.

[agumonkey]

I just had a day "off" because of some work on the 5G tower nearby. I can feel my brain chemistry change when the line is off. I don't feel the need to constantly check. There was a limited service bandwidth but it was too unreliable for my brain to want to wait for its dose of webpage refreshing. It sucks the long term / in-depth brain states .. it's so weird.

[johnmaguire]

Reminds me of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40802066 (I Add 3-25 Seconds of Latency to Every Page I Visit, 2020)

[timeinput]

Do you ever have trouble falling into past decisions, and over analyzing them, and doubling down on your anxiety?

I would love to get rid of my smart phone, but the problems I dwell on are very rarely present or future decisions, and realistically what is top of my mind anxiety be damned is useless energy, it's like running a wind turbine off the grid, and forcing it to spin as if it were a big fan instead of running the grid off wind turbines. The thoughts are more like did I disappoint that friend last weekend, or did I dissapoint that coworker at the Christmas party 6 months ago, or did I do <x> that definitely didn't create <y>, but did I do <x> that made <y> happen?

I use chess apps on my phone to at least put my brain off those thoughts entirely because I have a different problem to solve, and that is magnificent, and if If I didn't have that I don't know what I would do. I know there's something probably not quite right, but I'm wondering how much time you end up spending on problems that "can't be solved," and how much is time spent actually solving problems in your life. If that makes any sense.

[glic3rinu]

What you are describing sounds precisely like your brain trying to do some emotional processing and you are shutting it down because you think it's not useful. If you are looking for the productive spin, then I would suggest trying some metathinking. Try to discover why your brain decides to bring this up to your attention. The specific story might seem banal, but uncovering the underlying pattern will teach you things about yourself that you might not be aware of yet, like what you are afraid in life.

[bix6]

Don’t worry about the past, what’s done is done. Learn from it to do better next time and move on. Most people won’t remember the thing you’re freaking out about because it was something minor in their lives.

[therealdrag0]

I can sympathize, but you didn’t mention the benefits at all, what would they be? What is benefit of anxiously thinking about past decisions?

[elbasti]

Ah. Well I didn't mention all the benefits, but what I was referring to here were future decisions, not past ones. Decisions I had put off taking because they caused me great anxiety but that nonetheless had to be done, and the sooner the better.

Other benefits:

- Vastly improved mood

- Renewed interest in creative endeavors, specifically writing

- A sense of well-being

- A "the scales have fallen from my eyes" realization/epiphany/gnosis around the nature of reality and the effect "weaponized language delivery mechanisms" (ie, social media) have on our perception of it.

Pretty fucking worth it, if you asked me. And yet I fell off the wagon and have a smartphone again.

[Loocid]

I understood it not as past decisions, but facing current decisions they need to make but often procrastinate on by looking at their phone.

[namaria]

The anxiety is there whether you examine it or not.

Processing things that give us anxiety is the way to get rid of it.

[kenjackson]

Is it good to have anxiety over things you have to do where there really aren’t options. Unless you’re saying you figured out better decisions due to the additional thinking. But if the end result was simply more anxiety — mine being distracted on the phone.

[Cthulhu_]

This is a self-reinforcing concept as well; I haven't read the other book mentioned (The Anxious Generation, I put it on my wishlist) but I'm convinced that it makes mention of this as well, that is, not being on your phone in these interstitial moments is in itself a cause of anxiety, not so much because of the places your mind wanders but because of its constant presence and repeated mini dopamine hits. Addiction, basically.

I've got a vacation planned, I should make a point of it to leave my phone alone for distraction / entertainment / interstitial moments.

[twic]

There is an SMBC more or less on this subject: https://smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2225

[namaria]

I find myself lacking the necessary mental down time to process things that happen in my life.

Long walks help. No music or podcasts, just me, my mind and the city.

[eikenberry]

Why didn't you list the downsides, what you missed from not having a smart phone? Was it because there weren't any or because you thought they were obvious?

Having a mobile, networked computer with us at all times has been a huge benefit in many ways and I find it hard to believe people would chuck it all due forming habits they don't like. Habits can be molded pretty easily if approached in a conscious way.