Indeed, I tend to agree with 4chan (in their tirade against http://9gag.com) that this type of stuff has become the "cancer" of internet culture. Even though they are responsible for spawning it.
I recommend taking the time to use it, especially with friends. When you're not just passively sitting and staring, but contributing to the content, it turns it something else. You become part of a conversation that's surprisingly addictive, and not something you come across in 'post random pictures here' sites.
I know we had this discussion a lot, but I can't be the only one to find this trend a little disturbing.
I seriously admired (and still do) the Diaspora guys for tackling probably the hardest problem there is, replacing facebook with a distributed alternative. And things have probably been a lot tougher than any of us can imagine.
However, how do you go from the ambitious Facebook-Killer to an quickmeme/pinterest mashup, especially from the godfather YC? I know all the big things start small somewhere, but something just doesnt feel right to me. There must be some secret sauce that only pg et al. know.
I'm noticing many problems with your perspective, and since I'm in a good mood this morning I'm going to try and help force-puke the cool aid out of you.
> I seriously admired (and still do) the Diaspora guys for tackling probably the hardest problem there is
Its a trivial problem compared to what SpaceX, Solum, and tons of others are tackling.
> However, how do you go from the ambitious Facebook-Killer to an quickmeme/pinterest mashup
This sentence is a great example of cognitive dissonance. The reality is, it is easy to go from one to the other because they are pretty much the same thing: People get to share stuff with each other on a web interface.
> especially from the godfather YC
> There must be some secret sauce that only pg et al. know
PG invests in dumb shit. YC invests in dumb shit. All the time. Their business model is not "invest in the best ideas in the world" its "invest in people who have the potential to make billion dollar companies".
Furthermore, PG has stated this in his essays, and there is ample evidence in the many startups they have invested in throughout the years.
So, I hope I've helped push you through the social-web-center-of-the-universe and YC-the-creator stage.
Just to offer a counterpoint. If you focus on Facebook's original audience from when they started getting big in ~2005 (college kids) and check out how today's college kids use Facebook, a lot of screentime is being spent sending jokes back and forth.
I remember visiting a college sophomore when I was a senior in HS and FB was still restricted to college students. He and his friends were all making joke groups[1] and inviting everyone.
Honestly, I think that if a company is aiming for the social brass ring, gunning for Facebook, the best thing they could do is become 20 year olds' favorite way to joke around with each other online. High school kids are all too happy to follow whatever college kids are doing, and these young audiences are much more likely to break out of their established surfing habits than adults are. Imgur.com is the backbone of the teenage social web.
I appreciate your thoughts. Makr actually comes out of a lot of learnings of building something really hard. At some level we realized that even the most perfect centralized system only solves part of the problem. People won't use it just because its decentralized, or built on open standards/software, except the people who already understand the intrinsic value of such things.
We feel like people need to feel like they have investment in the stuff they create. It is kinda like when Betty Crocker re-jigged instant cake mix in the 50s to add eggs, and then people felt like they were cooking with love™. We hope that Makr gets people to be creative, and thus care more about the stuff they have online.
It a different direction than the distributed bits problem (and D* continues to exist to solve this problem), but making people care about their stuff online might actually be a harder one in practice.
Besides there is so many of such sites already, it makes me sad to think that resources are wasted there instead of on Diaspora (or other "usefull" stuff).
Canvas is a lot more fun because it adds a level of playful interaction (stickers) and brings along a known-for-lulz community (4chan and by proxy Reddit) that Makr.io doesn't. My problem with Makr is that if it's trying to create memes, not only is the audience terrible at choosing photos, but the design isn't even using Impact (which may seem silly on the surface, but ensures the content is read to be funny/sarcastic).
In this sense, it reminds me more of an LJSecret's Pinterest, and these two audience types don't blend well together at a social level, so I'm not sure how a a platform catering to both of them will do over time.
They only had funding for about a year or so. And with a problem of the scale they were tackling there was simply no way it would've been successful. Everyone could see what was going to happen a mile away. They'd work on some flimsy FB clone, nobody would use it, and they'd move onto real jobs or start something else.
They say it's hard, yet nobody is gonna pay anything for this. That's the worst of both worlds. These guys still haven't learned their lesson from making Diaspora.
To me, this just demonstrates the problems that arise when you say you're trying to tackle this huge gigantic problem. There's a ton of building hype, and then people are disappointed/scornful when you can't deliver. It reminds me a bit of the Thiel Fellowship.
Maybe this YC class is just a result of many lessons learned. It does seem the problems they tackle are, for lack of a better word, lame, but that doesn't mean they can't grow into something really big.
I guess time will tell, but best of luck to Makr.io. My only wish is that they share everything they must have learned through the process of Diaspora.
1. Does Y Combinator then own a stake in their product Makr, or in Disapora?
2. When Allerta went from Waterloo Velocity's incubator to inPulse (at Y Combinator) and then Pebble (with Kickstarter's help), which pivot does Y Combinator have an ownership in? The parent company, or the new product?
3. Did everyday.me get accepted into the YC class, or Noodle Labs (makers of everyday.me) receive funding?
4. If you start an unrelated side project while you're there, is it seen as a pivot? And does YC have a claim in that?
The most confusing part about this is that they don't seem to acknowledge the disappointment that the public might have after reading this. Diaspora did such a good job of capturing people's imaginations, but did a terrible job of communicating about its shortcomings. This just seems to be a continuation of that.
If its a remixing place for memes, why not make them look like original memes? I don't like the font you chose to overlay since I'm so used to the ones currently on all the meme generators.
Just curious, if any of the funds raised via Kickstarter for Diaspora were used in the development of Makr.io, including founders/developers salaries/expenses/etc.?
If yes, that is the biggest flaw of Kickstarter, no accountability. I can dream something really great, raise tons of cash via Kickstarter, and use that to do something else.
They should better focus on cleaning up D* code, solid federation and security (such as end to end encryption and etc.). Flashy UI is really secondary.
Flashy UI and solid backend code are almost always done by different people. The designer may be writing markup or some JS, but they won't be hacking on end to end encryption. The alternative then, would be to fire the designer and hire another backend guy.
Except they're not going to just not have any UI design at all, and hiring contractors for a whole project would probably end up being more expensive than a full time person anyway. Other members of the team could do it (probably not as well as a specialist), but then they would actually be spending time on design that they would have spent on the back end, which was your original criticism.
Also, the "flashiness" of the interface has a lot more to do with the talent of the designer than anything else. A talented designer may charge more, but probably not that much more, especially on a feel-good open source kickstarter project.
Quick note to all the people who ask: "How is this site different from XYZ?"
Makrio may or may not be different from 4chan (some thoughts on that here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4393668), but regardless, for many of us it might be the first service that actually works!
I don't like memes, I think they are stupid, and that's why I've never used 4chan or 9gag or cared much for the Cheeseburger network. But, with Makrio I actually have fun; something about it is different and it draws me in.
Before you dismiss the site as "just another X", give it a try for a few days, you just might like it!
[+] [-] mikemarotti|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dmix|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runn1ng|13 years ago|reply
On one hand, I understand that the original concept wasn't as successful as everyone thought, so the best thing to do is try to do something else.
On the other hand, "meme creation" is so overdone at this point that I am surprised that this is the "next big thing" that they try to build
[+] [-] koji|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nchuhoai|13 years ago|reply
I seriously admired (and still do) the Diaspora guys for tackling probably the hardest problem there is, replacing facebook with a distributed alternative. And things have probably been a lot tougher than any of us can imagine.
However, how do you go from the ambitious Facebook-Killer to an quickmeme/pinterest mashup, especially from the godfather YC? I know all the big things start small somewhere, but something just doesnt feel right to me. There must be some secret sauce that only pg et al. know.
[+] [-] kvnn|13 years ago|reply
> I seriously admired (and still do) the Diaspora guys for tackling probably the hardest problem there is
Its a trivial problem compared to what SpaceX, Solum, and tons of others are tackling.
> However, how do you go from the ambitious Facebook-Killer to an quickmeme/pinterest mashup
This sentence is a great example of cognitive dissonance. The reality is, it is easy to go from one to the other because they are pretty much the same thing: People get to share stuff with each other on a web interface.
> especially from the godfather YC
> There must be some secret sauce that only pg et al. know
PG invests in dumb shit. YC invests in dumb shit. All the time. Their business model is not "invest in the best ideas in the world" its "invest in people who have the potential to make billion dollar companies".
Furthermore, PG has stated this in his essays, and there is ample evidence in the many startups they have invested in throughout the years.
So, I hope I've helped push you through the social-web-center-of-the-universe and YC-the-creator stage.
I've been there, and its nice to move on.
[+] [-] bgilroy26|13 years ago|reply
I remember visiting a college sophomore when I was a senior in HS and FB was still restricted to college students. He and his friends were all making joke groups[1] and inviting everyone.
Honestly, I think that if a company is aiming for the social brass ring, gunning for Facebook, the best thing they could do is become 20 year olds' favorite way to joke around with each other online. High school kids are all too happy to follow whatever college kids are doing, and these young audiences are much more likely to break out of their established surfing habits than adults are. Imgur.com is the backbone of the teenage social web.
[1] For example: http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Will-Go-Slightly-Out-of-My-W...
[+] [-] mbs348|13 years ago|reply
We feel like people need to feel like they have investment in the stuff they create. It is kinda like when Betty Crocker re-jigged instant cake mix in the 50s to add eggs, and then people felt like they were cooking with love™. We hope that Makr gets people to be creative, and thus care more about the stuff they have online.
It a different direction than the distributed bits problem (and D* continues to exist to solve this problem), but making people care about their stuff online might actually be a harder one in practice.
[+] [-] buster|13 years ago|reply
Besides there is so many of such sites already, it makes me sad to think that resources are wasted there instead of on Diaspora (or other "usefull" stuff).
[+] [-] mnicole|13 years ago|reply
In this sense, it reminds me more of an LJSecret's Pinterest, and these two audience types don't blend well together at a social level, so I'm not sure how a a platform catering to both of them will do over time.
[+] [-] rrbrambley|13 years ago|reply
However, I do not think it's sad in any way. In my book, entertainment is is useful.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] casca|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dj2stein9|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vandershraaf|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nnash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AznHisoka|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhughes|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] felipebueno|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cmcewen|13 years ago|reply
Maybe this YC class is just a result of many lessons learned. It does seem the problems they tackle are, for lack of a better word, lame, but that doesn't mean they can't grow into something really big.
I guess time will tell, but best of luck to Makr.io. My only wish is that they share everything they must have learned through the process of Diaspora.
[+] [-] zio99|13 years ago|reply
1. Does Y Combinator then own a stake in their product Makr, or in Disapora?
2. When Allerta went from Waterloo Velocity's incubator to inPulse (at Y Combinator) and then Pebble (with Kickstarter's help), which pivot does Y Combinator have an ownership in? The parent company, or the new product?
3. Did everyday.me get accepted into the YC class, or Noodle Labs (makers of everyday.me) receive funding?
4. If you start an unrelated side project while you're there, is it seen as a pivot? And does YC have a claim in that?
[+] [-] state|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasonwilk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] countessa|13 years ago|reply
color me disappointed
[+] [-] yumraj|13 years ago|reply
If yes, that is the biggest flaw of Kickstarter, no accountability. I can dream something really great, raise tons of cash via Kickstarter, and use that to do something else.
[+] [-] yarrel|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DodgyEggplant|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mbs348|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shmerl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] woah|13 years ago|reply
Except they're not going to just not have any UI design at all, and hiring contractors for a whole project would probably end up being more expensive than a full time person anyway. Other members of the team could do it (probably not as well as a specialist), but then they would actually be spending time on design that they would have spent on the back end, which was your original criticism.
Also, the "flashiness" of the interface has a lot more to do with the talent of the designer than anything else. A talented designer may charge more, but probably not that much more, especially on a feel-good open source kickstarter project.
[+] [-] human_error|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kirillzubovsky|13 years ago|reply
Makrio may or may not be different from 4chan (some thoughts on that here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4393668), but regardless, for many of us it might be the first service that actually works!
I don't like memes, I think they are stupid, and that's why I've never used 4chan or 9gag or cared much for the Cheeseburger network. But, with Makrio I actually have fun; something about it is different and it draws me in.
Before you dismiss the site as "just another X", give it a try for a few days, you just might like it!
[+] [-] chasing|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adam-_-|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mbs348|13 years ago|reply