[keoneflick]

The thing is, traditional receivers wanted to be the "brains" of home theater, switching video inputs, managing audio, turning everything on.

That role is no longer sensible when used with smart TVs/Apple TV boxes/Android TV boxes.

As a result, traditional receivers are relegated to be being audio decoders and amplifiers. Honestly, I think there's already more manufactured and lying around than the world really needs. It was inevitable that a few product lines would be consolidated.

[jauntywundrkind]

Really good call out, that the TV now often is the center of the AV experience, where-as the "receiver" (and amplifier) used to be driving the show.

I really really wish there were digital audio decoder/processors available. It sucks so bad that you either buy a semi affordable consumer amplifier with 7.2.2 Dolby Atmos out and ok amplification, or if you want to step up you need a $4000+ processor whose only real job is decoding Dolby formats & turning them into analog outs for amplification. And there's almost no market, just a couple odd products like Emotiva's XMC-2: https://emotiva.com/products/xmc-2-plus-16-channel-9-1-6-dis...

Opener standards like DTS would hopefully have some remedy here but if the source material isn't available it hardly matters. Hoping for actual open standards Immersive Audio Model and Format (iamf) and the Eclipsa Audio Format profiles atop that maybe some day give us good spatial audio that an rpi and multichannel sound out board can help us free ourselves from this vile civilization-scale Dolby tarpit with. https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclips...

[jeffbee]

Licensing is definitely strangling the market for Atmos decoders. If you have particular requirements you can always do it with ~$2k in Dolby software licenses and also ~$2k in converters. You cannot, unfortunately, DIY hardware for Atmos without an HDCP license. If you have one of those you can actually DIY something around a DSP like the ones Analog Devices sells preloaded with the IP. Then again if you have those kinds of resources you probably already work for Harman or something.

[Duwensatzaj]

MiniDSP? https://www.minidsp.com/

I used their stuff for a four-speaker audio setup but they do affordable home theater devices as well.

[tzs]

Any article posted here about smart TVs draws a large number of comments about limitations and annoyances of smart TV platforms.

90+% of the things people complain about would no longer be a problem if they got a traditional A/V receiver, plugged all their sources such as streaming boxes and game consoles into the receiver, and just used the smart TV as a monitor (and as a tuner if they watch OTA television).

Until that is no longer the case there will be a role for traditional A/V receivers.

[jwr]

> 90+% of the things people complain about would no longer be a problem if they got a traditional A/V receiver, plugged all their sources such as streaming boxes and game consoles into the receiver, and just used the smart TV as a monitor (and as a tuner if they watch OTA television).

The problem there is the terrible UI of those A/V receivers, designed by committee that upholds long-standing traditions. It takes a lot of fussing with the complicated remote to get to where you want, which is perhaps fine for geeks, but annoying in a family setup, where all household members would like to know how to watch Netflix.

BTW, these traditions are ridiculous: as an example, my DENON receiver has two monstrous knobs on the front, like most AV receivers. The one on the left I will never use in its entire lifetime: it is for manually sequentially switching input sources, which nobody does anymore. And yet they still place it as the most prominent feature/control on the front panel.

The buttons that I'd like to use are small, black-on-black with dark gray labeling in 8pt type, so basically impossible to use unless you use a magnifying glass and a flashlight.

[keoneflick]

You can have the TV still be a dumb monitor by using a TV box, but handle the switching of inputs if you have more than one input.

The problem is that as video technology has advanced, it makes less and less sense to pay for video processing technology on a receiver. Your new TV supports HDMI 2.1 with 120hz and VRR for your new PS5.

Does your receiver? Are you willing to spend $1000 to upgrade your receiver to simply correctly pass through that video signal, with little meaningful audio upgrade?

[hedora]

I don’t understand what an A/V receiver is for. Our setup:

- An old LCD TV with 4(?) HDMI inputs and a few legacy ports.

- linux box with hdmi out

- apple tv with hdmi out

- console with hdmi out

- line out cable from TV to 1970’s receiver’s line in.

- line out from sonos to another line in on the receiver.

- roof antenna, with a Y to the TV and receiver

- turntable

- two extremely nice speakers

(Before someone asks, the TV has some sort of multichannel digital audio out. I don’t care. If I did, that’d give me surround sound. Similarly, I could get a subwoofer if I wanted.)

This is completely fine. The apple tv and console auto-switch the tv to their output, and sync the power buttons. The linux box doesn’t, but probably could if I decided to RTFM. The apple tv can be controlled with the tv remote, but its native remote is nicer. We only use the TV remote to access linux.

We only touch the receiver to switch between TV, turntable, sonos and radio.

How would an A/V receiver possibly improve this? (Note: I want the analog radio and record player with their nice mechanical switches and warm FM sound, and will run the sonos s1 app until the cloud side of it dies.)

[ericghildyal]

The problem isn't the number of boxes plugged in, its that the TV has its own OS and built-in apps that people want to use that doesn't work with anything outside the TV.

I don't think too many people have, for example, a Samsung TV and a Firestick and use the 2 interchangeably for different apps.

I had this problem until the Samsung interface got too unbearably slow (6 year old tv), so I just bought a Google TV and that goes through my receiver's HDMI in port. Before this update, I was using optical out from the TV into my receiver, but the quality was noticeably degraded. I'm lucky I also don't use the radio function or a record player since that would just add to the chaos.

[bombcar]

eARC or whatever it is really changed this. I don't need a receiver with buttons anymore, I just need one that handles eARC gracefully.

We're about five years away from "no remotes" anymore, imo. As it is I only need to find the TV remote when something goes really wonky - and even then I can reset it by using the smart app to power cycle the outlet ;)

[mikepurvis]

For a wall-mounted TV, it's still pretty essential to get a single cable run to it, vs needing to plug in each device individually. That said, it's curious how the multiplexing and audio amp functionality ended up in the same box.

Really what it should be is:

- a "remote" multiplexer comes in the box with my TV. It speaks HDMI/CEC to the TV telling it what input is active so that the TV's UI can reflect that and it can do things like switch between movie and game mode picture tuning.

- the former AVR should become a purely eARC box with no buttons, not even a power button— it comes on on command of the TV, and adjusts its amplification volume according to the same eARC signals that a soundbar uses. Any initial calibration or speaker setup is done via a single-use phone app.

[kyriakos]

eARC is amazing tech - when it works.

I have a recent top of the line Samsung TV, and last year's 5.1 Samsung soundbar and even though both components are from the same brand there are some very frustrating times eARC fails. The rest of the time it works like magic.

[insane_dreamer]

Yes, but vinyl is making a strong comeback, and with that comes the need for traditional receivers. Even CDs are making a comeback -- as many indie artists publish CDs (and some do vinyl), which implies demand for standalone CD players with a receiver (like those made by the Denon, Onkyo, etc.)

I have a HomePod in my living room and it gets used, but I also have a traditional receiver hooked up to my external speakers, with a turntable and CD player plugged into the receiver.

[SoleilAbsolu]

I was going to say something similar - I think there will still be some market for high-quality audio preamp/receiver/mixer-type devices that have actual EQ/tone controls rather than endless menus, and focus on actual fidelity over features. Sony, Onkyo, Sansui & Yamaha are brands I've trusted for this over the years.

[baq]

‘The two things which brought me to vinyl is the expense and the inconvenience.’

[timc3]

If you are really into AV they are more important than ever.

Yes at first glance a TV does the switching, and the rest. But a modern receiver can be better. Better switching, better ability to handle multiple speakers ( particularly for Dolby Atmos ) including Room EQ. Alot of TVs only have 2 HDMI ports with all the latest features.

[al_borland]

This is one of the things that kept me from getting a proper home theater setup. It always seemed like more complexity than I wanted under my TV. I could do it, but I simply objected to the idea. Not to mention, I like for someone to be able to come to my house and use my TV without taking a class first.

[keoneflick]

Yes, definitely had that experience growing up of going over to someone's house and being unable to operate the very complex tower of black boxes. Could not agree more.

[baq]

> It always seemed like more complexity than I wanted under my TV.

the receiver doesn't need to be under the TV. it can sit in a basement. the question is if you really want to have proper sound or it's only a nice to have.

> use my TV without taking a class first

this is not an issue at all. HDMI ARC handles this.

[bliteben]

I got one recently for a room that was already wired with speakers, and man the ability to control the volume on Apple TV remote app on your phone is amazing. For whatever reason none of my other Apple TV's will allow that (could be the tv's fault, but obviously somewhere along the line they at least expect a speaker bar). I'm sure it's a fault of the HDMI spec somewhere that you can't easily change the volume on the tv itself but you can on downstream devices.

[skydhash]

I have a somewhat cheap Denon for 5.1 audio and after the initial sound setup, I've never needed to touch the settings other for adjusting the subwoofer volume. It's mostly Apple TV -> AVR -> TV, but I got other inputs like a PS4 and a PC for music. And it has Airplay, Bluetooth and Spotify Connect for anyone that wants to play from their phone.

There's no need for a super-complicated setup for good sound.