[amitport]

[flagged]

[dbetteridge]

It was a gift from Egypt

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_Obelisks

[amitport]

Egypt was subjugated to the Ottoman Empire at the time.

And even if they had some kind of king/dictator, it is certainly was a decision of a free people.

What antique France monuments did France give away just like that for no reason? Do not take what should not have been offered.

[rixed]

Actually, that's interresting.

According to wikipedia[0], the frenchs did think about stealing it during the Napoleonic wars, but didn't. Some time later they "suggested" to the Ottomans that the obelisks be offered, in exchange for a monumental clock[1]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_Obelisks#Luxor_Obelisk...

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Citadel_Clock

[amitport]

In any case, it didn't belong to the Ottomans to give away.

Getting it as gift from a conquering entity, does not make any of it better.

[victorbjorklund]

That is just silly. Should we demand Iran returns things from Greece, Egypt, etc that they acquired during the Persian empire? Should Egypt return things they acquired from their neighbors in the past?

[diggan]

Depends on "acquired" means. Pillages as part of a war? Then yes, why not give it back? "Acquired" in terms of gifted by the other party, like this Obelisk, then no, that wouldn't make sense. Same goes for purchased.

But things stolen with violence or threat of violence, should probably be returned (if they want it returned). While we shouldn't hold children responsible for the actions of our parents, we can also be better than our parents and return things we know aren't rightfully ours.

Off-topic, but you're probably one of the top 3 persons in the world with the most similar first+last name as myself, with a Levenshtein Distance of only 6 :)

[diggan]

Is the US planning on giving back the Statue of Liberty? Would make as much sense

[Disposal8433]

You can keep it, it's pretty where it is. And we already have like 20 of those: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicas_of_the_Statue_of_Libe...

[gostsamo]

TBH, the statue of liberty was a gift while the obelisks were pillaged.

[infecto]

While I generally understand the sentiment, I would also argue that most of the countries that have been pillaged of artifacts are also incredibly unstable. I would rather the pillaging exist than to lose history. We could go on as to why those countries are unstable but keeping it bounded to simply the pillaging of artifacts I stand behind it.

[amitport]

Now I'll just be waiting for Italy to return the colleseum stones to Jerusalem. Pretty sure the temple would have been fine, if they would not have destroyed it themeselves.

The "we took it to keep it safe" argument is kinda of weak, and still morally wrong

[krapp]

Europeans routinely destroyed the artifacts of any culture they considered heretical. They tore down Greek and Roman temples to build churches on the ruins. They stripped the Coliseum for parts. They made soup out of mummies and traded grave goods as baubles. The premise that they somehow deserve to be considered the librarians and guardians of the very cultures they colonized and exploited is an absurd, and implicitly racist, imperialist ideal.

You may be right that the political situation has become complicated (the specific case of this obelisk is complicated) but let's not retroactively claim noble intent behind what at the time was little different than what the Vikings did when they showed up at Lindisfarne.

[oliv__]

Are you planning to return the genes in you that came from other nationalities and tribes?

[Ylpertnodi]

>(also looking at you, England and Italy...)

*Great Britain, and whoever.