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E-COM: The $40M USPS project to send email on paper

120 points| rfarley04 | 10 months ago |buttondown.com | reply

125 comments

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[+] jdietrich|10 months ago|reply
This kind of service does have at least one very valuable niche application - armed forces personnel on active deployment. During the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, British troops received hundreds of thousands of letters every month through the e-bluey service. Letters could be sent via email (including attachments) and were printed as close as possible to the recipient. It greatly reduced logistics costs and improved speed of delivery, often facilitating next-day delivery to extremely remote Forward Operating Bases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Forces_Post_Office#The...

It isn't an entirely novel idea - during the Second World War, mail was often sent to very remote destinations on microfilm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-mail

[+] Gud|10 months ago|reply
Why didn’t the service personnel have access to their e-mail?

I was in Afghanistan for a different country. It was my job to keep the satellite communications working, including so people could send emails to their friends and family.

[+] reaperducer|10 months ago|reply
Before long distance phone service was widespread, but local service was becoming common, people often sent a telegram over the phone.

Person in City A would phone the local telegraph office and dictate a message. It would be sent over the telegraph wires to the nearest telegraph office to the recipient in City B, where it would be written down by the operator. Then someone would phone the recipient and read the telegram over the phone to them.

This was in use at least into the late 1940's that I know of.

[+] dheera|10 months ago|reply
It would presumably be more secure to have the recipient receive them directly with a cell phone or satellite device. Printing them creates a literal paper trail and footsteps.
[+] floam|10 months ago|reply
There is something like this being used in jails and prisons now. The purpose is to limit the ability of people to sneak in paper bathed in fentanyl or other potent enough substances.

Inmates do not receive originals - incoming mail is scanned at some service provider’s office that a PO Box forwards to, and things are reprinted at the detention center and walked to the inmate. Or people sign up for a faster service where photos / letters are uploaded through an app to skip the snail mail + scanning step.

One of these is called pigeon.ly

At most participating facilities the only exception to get an inmate physical paper from the outside world is legal mail.

[+] ProllyInfamous|10 months ago|reply
>At most participating facilities the only exception to get an inmate physical paper from the outside world is legal mail.

This is how some imprisoned authors have managed to publish their samizdat — by sending thoughts/outlines to their lawyer [under the pretense of legal mail] — when their written ramblings might otherwise have been destroyed [as contraband].

[+] robobro|10 months ago|reply
> The purpose is to limit the ability of people to sneak in paper bathed in fentanyl

Or is it to make even more profit on the backs of prisoners & their families for companies who win juicy contracts from the government? This was being done by private companies before fentanyl.

Look into Jpay - they do a lot of slimy things and make a lot of money doing so. The free market in action I guess.

https://theappeal.org/prison-tablets-ipads-jpay-securus-gtl/

[+] citizenfishy|10 months ago|reply
I developed so many similar services for the UK Royal Mail in the 1990's

We used Yellow Royal Mail branded envelopes to gain attention.

[+] maguay|10 months ago|reply
Would love to hear more about your experience! Any chance you'd be up for an interview on the Buttondown blog?
[+] jdeibele|10 months ago|reply
What I wanted (and still want) is a secure place to hold statements from banks for savings accounts, credit cards, etc. and brokerages.

I bank with two credit unions. Years ago, they implemented a fee of $2/month for paper statements. I get it, printing and mailing statements costs money. But it also comes to me without me having to log into an account and navigate my way to where the statement is.

I'd prefer to have them send the statement each month to an email address I specify. I get that they should take security seriously, so practically maybe that only means Gmail, Apple Mail, etc. are whitelisted.

I used to think there was a business idea here, that the banks should be willing to pay $.10/statement to save on the cost of paper. I'd be willing to use the service because the statements would automatically go to it and be retained for forever.

The reality is, I'm afraid, that the banks don't want you looking at statements because then you might find errors and dispute them and that costs the banks money.

[+] ivan888|10 months ago|reply
Yeah I’ve had this same idea for the same reasons, and came to the same conclusions that without legislation, no incentive exists to send statements as attachments in emails or to store them with a 3rd party where they can’t be tampered with when a mistake is discovered
[+] franga2000|10 months ago|reply
> I get that they should take security seriously, so practically maybe that only means Gmail, Apple Mail, etc. are

What does that have to do with security? Geniune question. I really don't see what attach vector this prevents

[+] BiteCode_dev|10 months ago|reply
French postal service offers this, which is very convenient for legal letters because it stores a copy of it so people can't pretend they received something else.
[+] Sadzeih|10 months ago|reply
I use this constantly when I have an online document I need to send through the mail. I just use the online postal service to send it directly. It's probably a lot environmentally friendly since they can just print as close as possible to the destination. Instead of sending it across the country etc...
[+] tantalor|10 months ago|reply
We use this for summer camp. The kids aren't allowed anywhere near computers or phones, let alone internet access. So we write them emails and attach photos that are printed out and delivered to their bunks.

The service is https://www.bunk1.com/

[+] vaindil|10 months ago|reply
I'll start by saying I am not a parent.

I attended summer camps as a kid and worked at one for years as an older teenager. I love summer camps. Looking back, part of the magic for me was being away from my parents for an extended time in a way that wasn't really possible in any other setting. The service you linked (a way for parents to constantly follow along with what's going on at camp) just feels... wrong? unnecessary? detrimental? to me. Do parents really need to be updated all the time with what's going on while their children are away for a week or two?

I don't think it's immoral or unethical to offer this service, I'm sure there's a market for it, but I just don't see why anyone would choose to use it. Let the kids go off to camp and have a good time, and they can tell you about it when they get home. It would really take the wind out of my sails if I got home and my parents already knew everything I had done, instead of getting to tell them all about it myself.

[+] hoseyor|10 months ago|reply
Why not simply sit down and write an actual letter with a pen on paper, encouraging your child to also write?
[+] miki123211|10 months ago|reply
The Polish Post actually introduced a system like this recently.

It serves as boring technical infrastructure for government agencies which still need to send physical mail. Instead of each agency employing their own people to handle printing their mail and stuffing it in envelopes, they can just send it electronically to the post office, which will handle it far more efficiently.

The eventual goal is to move most people to e-deliveries, which you're encouraged to set up when using government services online. For those who haven't done so, the letter will be printed as close to them as possible to save on delivery time and costs, regardless of where in the country the sending agency is located.

[+] insane_dreamer|10 months ago|reply
I have mixed feelings about the USPS.

On the one hand, it seems like a good public service -- and certainly essential when it was created and up until recently.

But 99% of what comes in my mail box goes straight in the trash. We do everything we can to stop email spam, why not stop postal spam?

If the government offered email as a public service, perhaps there wouldn't need to be any reason for postal mail in terms of ensuring a means of communication that reaches every one.

The Postal Service could still exist but would be quite expensive and only used for things that actually matter (i.e., original legal documents like car title, etc.)

[+] anotheruser13|10 months ago|reply
This reminds me of the old FedEx Zapmail service they had in the 80s. They didn't get much traction and the service was shut down after 2 years at great expense.
[+] exabrial|10 months ago|reply
jfc all we want is the opposite. Think of the massive emissions reduction if we reduced all physical spam to emails.

1. diesel needed to cut the trees down

2. diesel needed haul logs to saw mills

3. natural/gas/coal needed to make the water to turn logs into paper

4. diesel needed to haul paper to printer to make spam

5. diesel needed to haul spam to post office

6. diesel needed to haul spam to to your door

7. diesel needed to put spam in the landfill

[+] nashashmi|10 months ago|reply

[deleted]

[+] jacobr1|10 months ago|reply
Not the full thing - but I use Informed Delivery[1] from the USPS.

You get to see a picture of the envelope via email. With a little bit of Multimodal LLM usage I have their email summarized with important mail flagged for me.

[1] https://www.usps.com/manage/informed-delivery.htm

[+] abtinf|10 months ago|reply
There are lots of services that do this, usually targeting people who travel a lot (especially boats and RVs).

I’ve had great experiences with https://www.virtualpostmail.com. They filter out all the junk, open and scan the rest, and email a pdf. It’s nice.

The only real downside is payment validation issues, when your parcel delivery address doesn’t match billing address.

[+] bArray|10 months ago|reply
I would also go the other way, you have something you want to be sent to somebody via paper, but it's only printed at the last mile in the delivery vehicle.

A birthday card for example doesn't need to be sent across the country or across the world, it only needs to become physical as close to your door as possible.

Maybe this could be a security measure too, you have a document that can only be printed by a secured machine and is only produced at the last mile based on current position. It would reduce the risk of the mail being intercepted or mis-delivered.

[+] malfist|10 months ago|reply
Who are you to decide how I get my mail?
[+] titizali|10 months ago|reply
you've just described earth class mail
[+] NoMoreNicksLeft|10 months ago|reply
The US Postal Service isn't in the business of delivering mail and hasn't been in a long, long time. In the words of a former US Postmaster General, their customers are "the 400 or so direct advertisers who send bulk mail". They're a spam company. Arguably the first spam company ever.

But they do have a 250k strong union which is a very reliable voting bloc, which is the most important thing. New excuses will be invented to keep them around as circumstances require that.

>It would save money on the last mile delivery. And speed up delivery to a matter of hours.

Delivery of what?

[+] _mlbt|10 months ago|reply
There are several services that do that for businesses. I don’t see why you couldn’t use one of those for your personal mail.
[+] bee_rider|10 months ago|reply
But that would actually be useful.
[+] dmix|10 months ago|reply
> The Postal Rate Commission took 15 months to review E-COM—long enough that standard postage went up 5¢ in the interim. It barred the USPS from operating its own electronic networks, just in case the Post Office decided to deliver messages electronically and in print. And it raised the price on the service to 26¢ for the first page, plus 5¢ for a second page.

> Sending the messages wouldn’t be simple, either. Customers had to register their company with the USPS using Form 5320, pay a $50 annual fee, send a minimum of 200 messages per post office, and “prepay postage for transmitted messages received, processed, and printed for each transmission,” dictated the 1981 Federal Register.

Almost sounds like a parody

[+] calvinmorrison|10 months ago|reply
now the junk mail subsidizes USPS. I wonder if they could be profitable without all the credit card preapprovals in the mail.
[+] j_w|10 months ago|reply
USPS doesn't technically need to be profitable. It's a service guaranteed by the Government. Government services do not need to turn a profit.

Yes, currently the service is expected to fund itself. This is short sighted and has progressively made one of the greatest public services worse.

[+] NoMoreNicksLeft|10 months ago|reply
So that people can discuss the US Postal service intelligently. About 15 years ago, there was a service (Outbox) designed to scan your mail, email anything important to you, and discard junk mail. They were growing, people enjoyed the service, and then they went to Washington DC to talk to the Postmaster General about expanding nationwide.

https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/outbox-vs-usps-how-the-po...

>When Evan and Will got called in to meet with the postmaster general, they were joined by the USPS’ general counsel and chief of digital strategy. But instead, Evan recounts that Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe “looked at us” and said “we have a misunderstanding. ‘You disrupt my service and we will never work with you.'” Further, “You mentioned making the service better for our customers; but the American citizens aren’t our customers—about 400 junk mailers are our customers. Your service hurts our ability to serve those customers.'”

That's the US mail. Can we all please stop pretending that any actual human needs the US mail to continue? No one's paying their bills through the mail... you can't even really write checks. Hell, given how international mail works, it's the US government subsidizing Aliexpress and Temu. No one should be defending the US Postal Service.

[+] ProllyInfamous|10 months ago|reply
>No one's paying their bills through the mail... you can't even really write checks.

This is exactly how I pay all my non-cash invoices — via USPS, sending checks. I don't even use email anymore (freedom!).

Ironically, I lost access to online banking a few years ago [which I'd really love to have, but US banking has ridiculous "security" infrastructure].

[+] chneu|10 months ago|reply
The USPS does a lot more than ship junk mail. It's a fun joke but it's super ignorant. It speaks to idiots, everyone else rolls their eyes and thinks you're not very bright.

It's a public service. It doesn't need to turn a profit because every dollar put into it generates economic activity.