I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

[nswizzle31]

The other day I saw a post here on HN that featured a NYT article called "Where Have All My Deep Male Friendships Gone?" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44098369) and it definitely hit home. As a guy in my early 30s, it made me realize how I've let many of my most meaningful friendships fade. I have a good group of friends - and my wife - but it doesn't feel like when I was in college and hung out with a crew of 10+ people on a weekly basis. So, I decided to do something about it. I’ve launched wave3.social - a platform to help guys build in-person social circles with actual depth. Think parlor.social or timeleft for guys: curated events and meaningful connections for men who don’t want their friendships to atrophy post-college.

It started as a Boston-based idea (where I live), but I built it with flexibility in mind so it could scale to other cities if there’s interest. It’s intentionally not on Meetup or Facebook - I wanted something that feels more intentional, with a better UX and less noise.

Right now, I'm in the “see if this resonates with anyone” stage. If this sounds interesting to you and you're in Boston or another city where this type of thing might be needed, drop a comment or shot me an email. I'd love to hear any feedback on the site and ideas on how we can fix the male loneliness epidemic in the work-from-home era.

[keiferski]

This idea appears every once in awhile, as it’s obviously a major issue in modern life.

The interesting thing though is how the solution is always location-agnostic. By that I mean it’s never really about a specific cafe or restaurant or soccer field, it’s always an app or service that organizes people to show up in various places.

I bring this up because if you look at places that had lively social activities a few decades or a century ago, they were almost always a specific place.

The neighborhood cafe where locals can stop by at any time and see other locals. The bar that everyone stops by after work twice a week. These are stationary physical locations that don’t require pre-planning, schedules, apps, or anything else.

[Multicomp]

The lack of deep friendships feel like a 3-fold problem.

1. You can't ever be real, if you are real, you are likely to be recorded doing something someone somewhere on the largest stage in the world (the public web) that someone will disapprove of, and someone else will raise their own profile by mining your impiety to prove their own concern and moral superiority.

2. Everyone is so mobile and connected online, they never have to break the ice and talk to those around them in the breakroom or geographical space, so all of our social skills have atrophied at best, or were never learned at worst. We know just enough civility to not get in fights, but we don't know how to easily break the ice or become acquaintances.

3. All the people that live in the cities are not close with each other, they didn't grow up together and don't go to church / rotary club / male-only spaces any longer because we are all supposed to pretend to be cool liberated yuppies in a hookup culture. Can't have real ties or any strongly held beliefs, that would make you religious (or worse, Religious on an actual religion), those people are bad. So I'm okay, you're okay, and we all smile. And inside, no real connections are ever made.

Not to mention testosterone levels dropping, schools being geared towards women, always co-ed spaces, and a breakup of younger and older generations because of cultural differences there too...not that the old people are always nice.

[scoofy]

I've never felt more connected to people than in NYC. I knew my neighbors, I had a huge social network, I just didn't like the NYC that much.

I honestly blame residential zoning. The place we would get to know our neighbors was at the corner shop, bar a block away, salon and pizza shop downstairs. All that goes away when you're walking more than a couple blocks to do anything.

[Telemakhos]

Sometimes I wish we could have "gentlemen's clubs" of the sort that existed in Victorian Britain (not the US strip club version), third-spaces where one could go to read or converse or play cards with other men or even have a meal or a drink. Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today.

[fiforpg]

I'd like to offer a contrarian view.

Much of the NYT article can be explained away by the Gell-Mann effect. During most of human history it was hard to maintain multiple strong bonds anyway; long distance communication pre-internet was hard too. There are plenty of modern opportunities for finding friends based on interests: conferences, concerts, sports bars etc. How much of this discussion is a moral panic caused by imprecise notions which by definition cannot be described by hard data?

[cjohnson318]

I think a lot of this boils down to the fact that most men are too insecure to engage with each other meaningfully. This causes them to appear overly competitive, or uninterested. How many times have you spoken to another man that can't stop trying to one-up you, or cannot be bothered to ask you a single question? That's the majority of my interactions with other men.

[_zaey]

Bouldering (indoor climbing) is the most social sport I’ve tried, and I’d highly recommend going on your own as you will find opportunities to meet new people, and others will talk to you (as long as you’re not wearing headphones!).

Bouldering provides an open space you can move freely in, with no inherent social hierarchy (no tutors, teachers), just people trying varying difficulties of bouldering routes. If someone can do a route you can’t, just ask them for tips, or if someone can’t do a route you can, ask if they want help, or cheer someone on when they do something difficult.

Bouldering provides lots of easy conversation starters, and as with all social situations, going on your own and showing vulnerability will always be endearing to others.

[solraph]

I like the idea in general principle - but if I lived in the right city/country, and didn't already have something similar, my first thought based on the landing page pictures would be;

"This is only for white guys in their twenties."

I don't know if that's intentional, but if I was in the location target market, I'd close the tab at that point.

[ojbyrne]

My mother, somewhere around 1976, told me that basically when men get married, they lose all their friends. But they get all their wife’s friends. Which seems prescient to me. Including their husbands, obviously.

[reify]

Being a retired psychotherapist I realise how valuable places like this are for men.

In therapy, For every 10 female clients, you get 1 male client, but most of the time that ratio is much worse.

Here in the UK we have Andy's mans club.

https://andysmanclub.co.uk/

Its a male peer support group.

Its a great place to go.

Groups of men talking about stuff that impacts all men in their daily lives.

A safe, supportive space to talk about problems: Relationships, employment, divorce, debt, family, violence, anger, grief, loss and everything men are not that forthcoming to share.

Setup by the family of a young man who took his own life at 21 years old.

The one I went to had about 60 men turn up every week, they were split into smaller groups.

Men supporting men who have experienced the same shit life throw at you.

[pjerem]

Congrats on your launch, that’s a truly nice issue to address.

For what I feel, boy friends doing whisky and poker night in seemingly high end places, that sounds like a boring cliché. That’s not how I would make friends so this don’t look appealing to me at all. It doesn’t feel like a setting to be natural for me. It feels cold. It’s exactly how I imagine American superficial "friendships" (I know it’s a cliché but it feels reinforced here). I understand it may be more than that but that’s what is advertised.

But maybe that’s just a cultural gap on my side and since the service is US cities only, maybe it’s fitting well there.

It also feels like you exclude half your potential market by being male only. Nowadays, women also have hard time creating relationships.

[frankmatranga]

As a recent grad in upstate New York, this exact problem of college friendships atrophying has been on my mind nonstop. My girlfriend and I host monthly cocktail parties in an attempt to stem the tide and even make new friends, but I’ve definitely been looking for male-focused groups. I’m interested!

[allears]

As Groucho said, I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.

Here's the thing -- by making it a 'club', and making prospective 'members' pass muster, you're just replicating HR at a big corporation. Friendship isn't so much about matching activities and interests as it is about finding someone whose sense of humor matches yours, or going through the same experience together. No matter how lonely I was, I would never audition for a 'club'. I'd much rather meet someone by just doing the activities I like, and noticing who else is around.

[listenallyall]

I'm torn on whether this has any potential for success but I strongly believe you chose the wrong launch cities. These are all crowded, "destination" cities with tons of people to meet and places to go, with a large urban core. I imagine people in growing cities without much of a central core and far less "personality" would desire something like this a lot more. Think Phoenix, Charlotte, Minneapolis, etc.

[KolibriFly]

Can we say that male loneliness is one of those issues that's quietly massive but rarely talked about seriously...

[ALittleLight]

One big challenge I see with this is that it will attract people who struggle to make friends. A club of lonely men seems like a place I would be embarrassed to go to and hesitant to make friends at. Usually friends have more to recommend them than loneliness.

[jaitaiwan]

In Queensland Australia there are men’s sheds which are great. The local pub. If you’re near a good church they often have lots of social stuff too, even basketball and soccer clubs.

[0xEF]

To be honest, I don't want another social media platform. I just want a group of people that I can talk computers, old tech and projects with and zero risk of politics, religion, or any of the various -isms entering the fray.

[nkotov]

Finding a third place helps a lot. For me, it's church. That's my community that's outside of work and family. But I also have hobbies (karting, gun range, etc.) and through that, I meet new people.

[jonfromsf]

These were a huge part of the American social fabric in the past. Most of the organizations are still active, although smaller than before. There's Freemasons, The Elks, Rotary International, American Legion, VFW, Knights of Columbus, Loyal order of Moose, Shriners, Lions Club, Kiwanis ...

[ecshafer]

I think this is a good idea but I think to get it really going good you need to have a social club. The old ethnic, religious an society social clubs all had a common factor of a club house. You could go to the American Legion, or Elks, or Masons, or Knights of columbus or Polish club or whatever at any time when you were a member you had old timers hanging out and doing things regularly. Youe event schedule will also need to be at least weekly to keep up close contact to build up connections.

[b3ing]

Most dudes are too busy looking to hook up with women (maybe because dating is harder than before, not sure but at meetups you can see the desperation sometimes) or they feel hanging around guys is “gay” or that’s the stigma that started in the 90s

[os2warpman]

In my 30s I found myself slipping into the chasm of loneliness.

It was particularly difficult for me because I had been in the Army for 10 years and was used to having many male friends I was extremely close with.

All I was doing on the weekends was sitting on the couch and I hate sitting on the couch.

I decided to fight it by focusing on three aspects of my personality and finding activities that suited them.

First was my nerdy side and for that I joined my local amateur radio and astronomy clubs. The amateur radio club is all old guys, but there's nothing wrong with that-- I'm on my way there too. But there is field day, volunteer opportunities, and monthly talks. Same for the astronomy club but slightly younger. You don't even need an expensive radio or telescope, or radio telescope. A pair of binoculars and a cheap handheld radio will get you started. My astronomy club is focused on astrophotography. I will never dive into that nightmare of cost but I have purchased a star tracker and learned to take deep sky photos with a DSLR. Also, if you want 20 different opinions on how to do something, tell an amateur radio club about your plan to do something-- sometimes their input is useful. Sometimes.

Time commitment: one day per month per club and the occasional volunteer event. Financial commitment: if you have self control, minimal.

Next was my desire for mental and physical fitness and for that I, a hairy sweaty middle-aged man who couldn't touch his toes, joined a yoga studio and started going regularly. There aren't a lot of men who go to yoga but they do exist and after a couple of months we started to get to know each other. Now every single Sunday after Yin we go get coffee. We are all into scuba so we go on an annual retreat each year to somewhere with yoga and good diving sites. The teachers think it's adorable, our little yoga men's club. Now I can touch my toes. And do a headstand. edit: and I don't know if it is a quirk of my area but every dude who is in to yoga is also, apparently, in to clay pigeon shooting as well so we do that too.

Time commitment: six hours per week, plus retreats. Financial commitment: large.

Finally was my desire to serve my community. This led me to joining my local volunteer fire company, going through EMT training, and going through the firefighter training pipeline, doing driver and pump operator training, and this fall I'm starting the officer pipeline. Now I staff the ambulance, do CPR training for the community, do a shift on the engine a couple of times per month, am on the board, and MOST IMPORTANTLY drive the engine in every single parade I can. The only reason I am up so late on a Thursday is that this evening was forcible entry training so I'm still amped up a little from hammering on the door training prop for three hours.

Time commitment: don't ask, it's practically a second job. Financial commitment: none, volunteers in my area get property and income tax credits and all training and gear is free.

I don't need to do all three, any single one of these would be fulfilling enough to make me happy-- but my kids are grown and gone and I've decided that working myself to death isn't worth it so I have the time.

Now instead of sitting on the couch all weekend doing nothing I have to specifically schedule weekends and tell people to leave me alone so I can sit on the couch all weekend and relax.

And if I need help moving that couch there is no shortage of volunteers.

Your personality is different but I guarantee, no matter where you live or what you're in to, there is some group somewhere that is looking for you.

[abhisek]

Hmm. Not sure if discovery and connection will solve the root cause of the problem that you highlighted. I think it’s more to do with dopamine rush from social media and decreasing ability for people to people IRL connection.

[noddingham]

Honestly I think you might be grappling with getting older and the change that naturally comes with it.

>I've let many of my most meaningful friendships fade.

At least you acknowledge that part and aren't bitter at your friends that it is somehow their fault.

>but it doesn't feel like when I was in college and hung out with a crew of 10+ people on a weekly basis

And it won't, ever again. They'll get married, move away, have kids, whatever. Just like if you played a sport in high school, or were in the band, that same group of people will never be together doing that same activity again after the last time.

>curated events and meaningful connections for men who don’t want their friendships to atrophy post-college

Except you acknowledge above your role in the "atrophying" and while you can say you didn't/don't want that to happen, you still allowed it to didn't you?

>The goal is to get people in the same place on a consistent basis.

Isn't that called the gym, the range, the golf course, softball/kickball/pickle ball team, bar, etc? I've struggled (still?) with exactly this thing as well and don't have any good advice. I will say it feels related to the notion of wanting to have a significant other but never leaving the house, you gotta put the effort in. On the bright side I read an article about a couple that missed neighborhood connections so started having coffee on their porch on Saturday mornings (or some consistent day of the week) and eventually neighbors walking by started saying hello, then stopping to chat, then bringing their own coffee, and then it became this whole neighborhood thing. So I guess I'm saying don't lose hope that you can't change things in your situation.

[cogogo]

I find it ironic that the site is missing information about its creators and their background given the mission/goals. Presume OP is the Nick in the contact at the bottom. If OP is reading I’d definitely suggest adding something about yourself and anyone else involved and why doing this matters to you.

[pconte]

Makes sense. A lot of guys feel this.. respect for actually doing something about it.

[kebokyo]

It would be really cool to see more Mastodon instances that’s solely focused on people within a certain geographical area. It would be this but without the trendy startup energy.

Also if I don’t hear a single MTG Commander game come out of this project we have all failed as a species.

[billy99k]

"but it doesn't feel like when I was in college and hung out with a crew of 10+ people on a weekly basis. "

I'm in my 40s and in my 20s (shortly after college), I created a meetup group and regularly met with a group of 10-12 people weekly (parties, hangouts, dinner, activities).

We are all married now (some with kids) and now meet once/month and the meetup group disbanded before covid. As I've gotten older, I realized that some friends don't make it to a new phase of life. Sometimes because it was a friendship of proximity (like a neighbor or co-worker) and other times because you are doing something different with your life.

[smitty1e]

I chef a monthly breakfast for the fellas.

We're working through R. Kent Hughes "Disciplines of a Godly Man". https://a.co/d/7jeAATr

[1123581321]

Neat. There may be an issue in the sign-up flow. I said I was in Other city, wasn’t asked where specifically. After I made an account, I RSVPed for an event which details will be revealed a couple days before. Is it just mixing all the other city people together or is that going to be in one of the cities where you’re established?

Male friendships are valuable. I either walk and get coffee, or we make breakfast every week. It started as three guys and averages 6-8 now, and some of our kids have become best friends. We also do a book club and some less frequent full family events.

[susiecambria]

I very much appreciate these efforts. I don't think they, like I don't think men's sheds, have to be everything to all people.

I DO think social isolation, white boys and men in the US (and elsewhere? I have no idea), and voluntarism have confronted challenges for years. Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone that came out in 2000, the Do Good Institute report on voluntarism (https://dogood.umd.edu/sites/default/files/2019-07/Where%20A...) and the recent work of Scott Galloway and friends on boys are examples of investigations of problems, challenges, and solutions.

Having been in the public policy world for 20+ years, government may be part of the solution (okay, not in this climate). But more often, it is part of the problem. Government is fickle about consistent and long term funding and evaluation and nonprofit organizations may not actually do work in a way that helps (meaning, is effective).

Individuals and communities often step up to do something, often anything, that may address a need. Participation and reach may wax and wain and I think that's ok. It really is the nature of the beast. Best case, an effort fades away and there is already another underway or standing in the wings.

The bottom line for me is that efforts are made. As a policy wonk and social worker, I'd very much like for efforts to be grounded in some sort of theory of change or best practice or something. But since I'm not a funder or a wielder of power, I don't get to make this decision.

[matty22]

I would argue that the fatal flaw of this idea is that it is an online app. If this was solvable with technology, Meetup.com has a 15 year head start on you and they didn't solve it.

I think technology is antithetical to the goal you are working toward. Instead, start a local group and have a "all cellphones go here" basket when members enter so that when they are there, they are fully engaged and not doom scrolling the entire time.

[benchloftbrunch]

I'd be interested, but it's not in my city (Houston) so tough beans I guess, unless someone else wants to start it here.

I very much agree with this being its own thing independent of Big Social Media. We need more of that. Too many of these types of things have the flaw that their only online presence is a Facebook group, which implicitly excludes me and anyone else who doesn't have nor want a FB account.

[amir734jj]

I think we (hacker news community) can make a difference in dating industry by creating an open-source free to use dating app. Same quality as Hinge/Bumble but free of cost and free of algorithm manipulation. I have been thinking about it for a while. I am a software engineer but doing this requires a massive group effort. Maybe let's chat about it. amirhesamyan [at] gmail.com

[informal007]

On the one hand, it's helpful to join a new friendship club if we truely admit that most of friendship is going to disappear as we are getting old.

On the other hand, some people are shamed to admit this point, as a result, joining this kind of club will make them look more shamed. It's just nature of humanity.

I think there should be a better idea for the second type of people.

[renewiltord]

Is this really a problem? I get the feeling that the male loneliness epidemic is more described by people about others than themselves. For my part, the world doesn't seem that way at all. I have many friends who live close by and who are a part of my life. We play basketball and poker and board games together. We go to nearby bars occasionally and to each others' homes regularly. We lift together though I haven't been good about keeping up with that.

And my apartment building is home to some 500 people, all of whom are quite normal. People borrow a spoon of yogurt or a USB cable, or ask for a jump start, or help with plumbing. It all feels very normal and about the right scale of human interaction. Considering all that, and that people generally report happiness, and that these things come and go without success we must conclude the whole thing is illusory like so many other Complaints About The Modern World.

[smaudet]

Hmm, I have used sites like this in past to some effect to make real world connections.

Signed up, but despite asking if I lived in one of three cities and selecting "other", it seemed to stick me in some event without a location?

There could be room for another app, e.g. Meetup has gotten particularly money hungry. If this is just a prototype I guess good luck!