[erikgaas]

Imo they are abstractions but not quite as bad as you / myself / everyone else is used to. Monsterui is moreso an extension of fasthtml. It doesn't hide any of the underlying API. Same with fasthtml with respect to htmx.

Htmx also may leverage js but it is meant to patch http functionality based on how http "should" function. See the hypermedia book for that discussion. You don't need to really know that it used js. You don't interact with it via js, just the dom.

As for starlette I'm not currently aware of any server stack that doesn't have some convenience library for that.

My point is that the frameworks which makes us very pessimistic every time a new approach comes out frequently try to make something really easy but once you get far enough you realize that you have to break their abstractions. And create hacks just to access the lower level implementation. I think you'll find something like this very different. When you need control you'll find everything to be much easier to decompose such that you can operate at your needed level of abstraction.

[pacifika]

Appreciate the lengthy reply!