top | item 44189071

(no title)

nmhancoc | 9 months ago

This was a long reply and I’d like to honor it by addressing what you bring up, but there’s a lot so forgive me for jumping around.

Let’s start by noting that we’ve now shifted the argument from “100% of this tax will be charged to renters” to, “this will get passed through to renters who were previously being undercharged.”

It’s hard to directly argue with your anecdote because I don’t know where you are or what your rental market is like, so I’ll address the argument more broadly.

Let’s examine how common that arrangement is. To the best of my search small time landlords of the variety you mention own something on the order of 35 and 40% of rental units. The rest, primarily multifamily (apartments) are owned by corporate landlords.

The corporate landlords were sued by the last admin for price fixing using realpage. I don’t know if or how that case was resolved but I think it’s safe to conclude they’re probably not undercharging.

For the small time landlords, probably some aren’t undercharging and some are. After all, how hard is checking neighborhood rents on Zillow once a year? Even if none are, we’re still admitting at least 60% of renters aren’t getting the kind of deals you mention. So this is a minority case, and probably shouldn’t be the basis of policy.

Addressing this point: > Under an LVT my landlord would be required to run the property in the most taxation efficient manner, which is counter to my interests as a renter.

Even granting that that’s true, I’d argue it’s not persuasive. The government needs some amount of money to function. LVT is one source of that money, income taxes are another, sales taxes are another, wealth taxes are another, etc.

So your argument fundamentally resolves down to “other members of society should make up the deficit in taxes I would otherwise pay so that I (and others in my situation) can enjoy a yard or more space than I otherwise would.”

And the basic question here is, why? In what way does it benefit literally anyone else in society that you have a bigger yard? This is a blunt and perhaps impolite way to put it, but it’s true.

Going back to those alternatives, we can counterfactually raise income taxes on some waiter bussing tables or a SWE slinging code at Facebook, on an author with a copyright, or on someone who owns a business. But, if we do, we should expect less of all of those services. That serves as a reason to avoid such a tax.

In contrast, with the yard, I can’t think of a single such service provided or reason to avoid the tax. And that’s the crux of the Georgist argument more than railroads or slumlords. It’s the empty lot, or the lawn as we now call it.

discuss

order

protocolture|9 months ago

>The government needs some amount of money to function.

The issue at hand isnt "Does the government need money to function" unless we are going full MMT derp we can all accept a level of taxation is necessary.

The issue at hand is whether LVT is a better distribution of the burden of taxation.

>So your argument fundamentally resolves down to “other members of society should make up the deficit in taxes I would otherwise pay so that I (and others in my situation) can enjoy a yard or more space than I otherwise would.”

My argument is largely that by shifting the burden of tax from a progressive tax regime, that is only targeting those by an amount calculated on what they can afford, to a tax regime thats largely dictated by circumstance and subjective valuation, you will hurt a lot of people who dont deserve it.

If we go too far in this direction we will have to define basic moral principles, because that seems to be where you are heading. I dont necessarily think that earning income should mark you for punishment either. But just as not taxing the homeless is fairly universal, not taxing people who organised their retirement and arent a burden is also fairly universal. Your mileage may vary.