[hello_computer]

> moles from certian big corp are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy the project

That's what I've always thought. The "X11 developers" pushing for Wayland weren't original developers so much as RedHat "maintainers," who (understandably) wanted a frontier to explore rather than janitorial work. All I know for certain is that X11 (even as of 15 years ago) mostly worked, while Wayland of 2025 is still full of headaches & breakages.

[dralley]

X did not "just work" for me 10 years ago, and neither is Wayland "still full of headaches and breakages"

I've had no substantial problems because of Wayland in the last, like, 5 years.

[antisol]

Thanks for your anecdotes. Here's a couple of counter-anecdotes:

---

X has "just worked" for me since at least ubuntu 8.04 (that's 2008, april, over 17 years ago, for those counting), probably earlier.

I don't recall having any particular issues with X on the fedora machines I ran before I switched to ubuntu 8.04, but I don't recall clearly enough to be able to confidently say that I didn't have any X issues.

OTOH, I also don't specifically recall having X issues since some time around Red Hat 6 or so, which would be around 1998 or 1999, so it might be more like 25-26 years since X didn't "just work" for me.

---

About a year ago, I heard that wayland might be approaching a usable state. So I decided to give it a try on a raspberry pi that I was setting up.

It took literally about 15 minutes before I ran into a problem where I wasn't able to do something I've been doing for decades on X. And I want to stress that I was hoping it would work - I was not out to find a reason not to use wayland, I just happened to run into one inside of about 15 minutes.

I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to do what I wanted to do on wayland. I put a nontrivial amount of effort into trying to solve the issue on wayland. During the course of this, I found several different/conflicting pieces of advice, none of which worked for me. I think IIRC I found one option which sounded promising but which meant recompiling the compositor, or something very-nontrivial like that.

I balked at that and switched the system over to X.

And the problem instantly went away, and everything started working again. And that machine currently has an uptime of well over a hundred days.

I would love for wayland to be a thing that actually works to the point that it's a viable replacement for X, but I grow more and more skeptical every year that this doesn't happen. I Expected it like a decade ago.

[blueflow]

Nvidia, vmxgfx. I would run wayland if i could.

[hello_computer]

2016-01-23 https://github.com/MaartenBaert/ssr/issues/431

2019-01-04 (only took 3 1/2 years to resolve!) https://github.com/flathub/us.zoom.Zoom/issues/22

2020-03-07 https://github.com/vkohaupt/vokoscreenNG/issues/51

2020-03-07 https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/issues/2471

2020-03-24 https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/6389

2023-09 https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/

2023-11-17 https://github.com/raspberrypi/bookworm-feedback/issues/149

[msgodel]

Most of the stuff that's come out of freedesktop.org always seemed to make things less usable. I'm glad to see people are finally giving up on it.

[zzo38computer]

> Most of the stuff that's come out of freedesktop.org always seemed to make things less usable.

I thought so too. I also thought they have many problems and do not help very well. I mostly try to avoid them.

(There are problems with X window system as well (and with Xlib), but still it seems the freedesktop had made things that are designed in a worse way.)