On an individual level, yes, "try harder" is all we personally can do (well, until GLP-1 agonists, LOL). So, sure, it's "good advice" in that it's all there is.
On a policy level? As far as medical intervention efficacy? It's entirely useless. Even crazy-expensive interventions involving several hours of professionals' time per week, for months on end, are wildly less effective than one might think.
What does work? Changing environment! Just ("just", lol) move to a skinnier country. You'll probably lose weight. Conversely, if people from there move to the US, they'll probably get fatter. That is, willpower and accountability and all that are not why certain populations are skinnier than others. Environment, which likely encompasses tons of factors that'd be incredibly expensive and take decades to change, seems to be it.
> Your claim that "trying harder" is "akin to insanity" is such an overreaction that it's misleading exaggeration, not worthy of further dissection.
"Akin to insanity" in the sense that nobody who's aware of research on the topic thinks it can work over a population... I mean, yes, very much so.
It's hard to wrap your head around that when you got fit working out. They will firmly believe that obesity will be solved by people working out and having a stricter diet. I took me years to understand that it's doesn't work for an entire population. Honestly, even if that happened (everybody started working out), people would have a lot of problems with body image, as we can see in teenagers boys nowadays.
On a micro level you can change your environment easily - stop buying foods that are bad for you at the store. Don't go down the chip and candy aisle. If you are not the one who shops for food in your household, inform the one who is that for your health they need to not purchase snacks.
In my anecdotal experience, fat people grossly underestimate how much they eat or lack the understand of how calorically dense the foods they consume are.
Science is a process, not an agent that can agree or disagree.
On a personal level we can do a lot more than just try harder. We can make permanent lifestyle changes in which healthier options become the default rather than something that we have to actively choose. This can be done in (almost) any environment.
In the first one, the communion was actual wine. The priest was adamant about it being real wine. But, we had a guy who was a recovering alcoholic in the congregation. Now, if you know anyone that is recovering from alcohol abuse, then you know that even one sip of booze is enough to send you on a bender. But, our priest was adamant that we all take communion in full bodied wine.
The other church I was at had communion too. But this church has the communion wine as sugar free grape juice, and all the bread served was gluten free. Covered the diabetics and the alcoholics with the 'wine' and covered the ceiliacs with the bread. No one in the congregation ever complained about the tastes; we all grew to rather like it that way, thankyouverymuch.
Which, I dare ask, was the more christ-like way of taking holy communion?
This seems far too harsh. Some people just poop out excess calories. Other people store excess calories as an energy reserve much more efficiently. Not everyone who is obese does that, but it's definitely a factor for many people.
For what it's worth, completely putting the environment at fault also doesn't seem right to me. But genetics absolutely plays a part, as does what is considered a "standard" meal/portion.
No, that's not how it works. Everyone will store excess calories as fat. People don't just poop out excess calories unless they have a serious medical condition that inhibits functioning of the digestive system. Outside of rare genetic conditions that cause adipose tissue hypertrophy, genetics only play a minor role like a few percent plus or minus.
> For those who are obese, in 99% of cases, they are the problem, not genetics. A lack of discipline is attributable to the individual, rarely external factors alone.
If the environment doesn't nudge the individual to be more disciplined, whose fault is it? If it's the individual, how exactly do you think this can be solved? Any solution that starts with "if everyone just did X then Y would be solved" is a non-solution, people respond to nudges, and incentives.
There needs to be something systemic happening for so many individuals across many different cultures to be lacking the will power to change something that the majority of the sufferers are not happy with, just brushing this into the "personal responsibility" bucket is a cop out, it's a non-solution, and not even wrong.
It might make you feel better but it doesn't provide any path to a system-based solution.
Not really. genetics play a huge role in satiety signaling, and you can't just willpower your way out of it the way someone who simply lacka discipline can.
Accountability for what? To who? And for what purpose?
> in 99% of cases, they are the problem, not genetics
Where'd you get that number? What are you basing it on?
> Your claim that "trying harder" is "akin to insanity" is such an overreaction that it's misleading exaggeration, not worthy of further not worthy of further dissection.
What does this even mean? How is my claim an overreaction? An overreaction to what? In what context or reference frame for appropriate reaction is my claim an overreaction?
In my comment above I am basically just saying "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
If you make it cheaper, easier and more socially acceptable for a group of people to eat low quality processed foods, even a portion of the time (as is the case where I live), that group of people will be more likely to eat processed foods.
It’s not impossible to follow the advice in the in the article, it’s just harder than it should be for some groups of people. Unfairly so, I think.
You lack accountability to yourself. Read this comment you wrote:
> People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!"
"People should" instead of "I'm going to". "It feels like" instead of making a direct statement.
Nobody here knows your situation or why you formed the way you did. But also, it doesn't actually matter. We always want some deep explanation but understanding is often just a way of dealing with impotence.
maketheman|8 months ago
On an individual level, yes, "try harder" is all we personally can do (well, until GLP-1 agonists, LOL). So, sure, it's "good advice" in that it's all there is.
On a policy level? As far as medical intervention efficacy? It's entirely useless. Even crazy-expensive interventions involving several hours of professionals' time per week, for months on end, are wildly less effective than one might think.
What does work? Changing environment! Just ("just", lol) move to a skinnier country. You'll probably lose weight. Conversely, if people from there move to the US, they'll probably get fatter. That is, willpower and accountability and all that are not why certain populations are skinnier than others. Environment, which likely encompasses tons of factors that'd be incredibly expensive and take decades to change, seems to be it.
> Your claim that "trying harder" is "akin to insanity" is such an overreaction that it's misleading exaggeration, not worthy of further dissection.
"Akin to insanity" in the sense that nobody who's aware of research on the topic thinks it can work over a population... I mean, yes, very much so.
tuesdaynight|8 months ago
j_w|8 months ago
In my anecdotal experience, fat people grossly underestimate how much they eat or lack the understand of how calorically dense the foods they consume are.
nradov|8 months ago
On a personal level we can do a lot more than just try harder. We can make permanent lifestyle changes in which healthier options become the default rather than something that we have to actively choose. This can be done in (almost) any environment.
Balgair|8 months ago
In the first one, the communion was actual wine. The priest was adamant about it being real wine. But, we had a guy who was a recovering alcoholic in the congregation. Now, if you know anyone that is recovering from alcohol abuse, then you know that even one sip of booze is enough to send you on a bender. But, our priest was adamant that we all take communion in full bodied wine.
The other church I was at had communion too. But this church has the communion wine as sugar free grape juice, and all the bread served was gluten free. Covered the diabetics and the alcoholics with the 'wine' and covered the ceiliacs with the bread. No one in the congregation ever complained about the tastes; we all grew to rather like it that way, thankyouverymuch.
Which, I dare ask, was the more christ-like way of taking holy communion?
sotix|8 months ago
DrillShopper|8 months ago
arp242|8 months ago
For what it's worth, completely putting the environment at fault also doesn't seem right to me. But genetics absolutely plays a part, as does what is considered a "standard" meal/portion.
nradov|8 months ago
piva00|8 months ago
If the environment doesn't nudge the individual to be more disciplined, whose fault is it? If it's the individual, how exactly do you think this can be solved? Any solution that starts with "if everyone just did X then Y would be solved" is a non-solution, people respond to nudges, and incentives.
There needs to be something systemic happening for so many individuals across many different cultures to be lacking the will power to change something that the majority of the sufferers are not happy with, just brushing this into the "personal responsibility" bucket is a cop out, it's a non-solution, and not even wrong.
It might make you feel better but it doesn't provide any path to a system-based solution.
oarfish|8 months ago
ponector|8 months ago
And a can of coke (30+g of pure sugar) on top to make sure they'll get diabetes later.
me_me_me|8 months ago
[deleted]
timcobb|8 months ago
Accountability for what? To who? And for what purpose?
> in 99% of cases, they are the problem, not genetics
Where'd you get that number? What are you basing it on?
> Your claim that "trying harder" is "akin to insanity" is such an overreaction that it's misleading exaggeration, not worthy of further not worthy of further dissection.
What does this even mean? How is my claim an overreaction? An overreaction to what? In what context or reference frame for appropriate reaction is my claim an overreaction?
In my comment above I am basically just saying "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
benjaminjt|8 months ago
If you make it cheaper, easier and more socially acceptable for a group of people to eat low quality processed foods, even a portion of the time (as is the case where I live), that group of people will be more likely to eat processed foods.
It’s not impossible to follow the advice in the in the article, it’s just harder than it should be for some groups of people. Unfairly so, I think.
vorpalhex|8 months ago
> People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!"
"People should" instead of "I'm going to". "It feels like" instead of making a direct statement.
Nobody here knows your situation or why you formed the way you did. But also, it doesn't actually matter. We always want some deep explanation but understanding is often just a way of dealing with impotence.
Just do it. No excuses.
bufferoverflow|8 months ago
And then claiming it's not your fault.
It 100% is.