4-7-8 Breathing

[mef51]

Plum Village (a Buddhist community founded by Thich Nhat Hanh) has a free app with hours and hours of different kinds of breathing and other types of meditation. They also upload meditations regularly on their youtube.

This web page also has some good resources and breathing meditations. https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/mindfulness-practice

Highly recommend

[mistrial9]

ok certainly this is a high quality source BUT breathwork should be done with supervision of a practitioner that has some sense. Like swimming (?) this ordinary activity can do great damage in relatively rare situations, or someone trying to do "extreme" practices without guardrails.

[kdamica]

There are lots of different ways to do this. The important thing for anyone wanting to get started is just to get started and not get hung up on which one you're doing. Box breathing, Wim Hof method, etc, are all great and any breathwork is better than none.

For an intro to the topic, James Nestor's Breath is excellent.

[ulnarkressty]

Every time I try breathwork (be it box or x-y-z) I feel that the intervals are too long - by the time I finish breathing out my brain goes into panic mode and the next breath is not enough to compensate. I find them the exact opposite of relaxing.

[oarfish]

is Nestor's book really excellent? I didn't make it more than halfway through because nowhere could i find any references for all the outlandish claims that are made. A lot of them are implausible anyway, and so far as I know the actual science does not support all these theories put forth in the book. If a thing is made out to be the cure to everything, it's likely the cure to nothing.

would be happy to have some good references.

this isnt to say that breathing exercises are not beneficial, but this book left me scratching my head.

[DontchaKnowit]

Iant wim hof dangerous?

[dmoy]

If you want breathing exercises that go way into the specialized deep end, you can always pick up the sport of 3p rifle. You'll get incidentally very good at calming via breath, because of the tight feedback loop of holes-must-go-closer-to-the-center

See e.g. Reinkenmeier describing breath work in

standing: https://youtu.be/dHsG3GU9_PY?si=qlaLrSfKLCeiCgl4

prone: https://youtu.be/5odRbYSbDIk?si=joBeFyyUrwBvQ7bk

Just general: https://youtu.be/JJ3zXuFsrfk?si=xdQ5NY0cHfK89CCg

The general points (deep from diaphragm, lean back, relax shoulders, etc) also carry over to other discipline like music (wind instruments at least).

[Liftyee]

As a smallbore prone beginner I hadn't made this connection yet but it makes a lot of sense. Time for some deeper investigation...

[dmos62]

I use Breathly. It's great visually and audibly. And, you can use a custom timing. It also has a few other presets, including box breathing. And, it keeps the screen on, though I wish it would work when my android is locked (in my pocket).

https://github.com/mmazzarolo/breathly-app

[cjauvin]

Great app, just tried it, works very nicely and has just the right set of things it should have, thanks!

[dartharva]

There's also Medito (closed-source but nonprofit), which has all sorts of guided meditations.

[amelius]

I see one problem in the UX. When breathing out you cannot see where the circle will stop so it is difficult to mentally plan this phase of the cycle.

[penguin_booze]

Also, there's no 'ding' at the point the breath-out stops and the next breath-in cycle begins.

[PretzelPirate]

I used it and the timer stopped when I was in the Hold command. Am I allowed to exhale?

I think the timer should be a multiple of the time to complete one full cycle, ending on an exhale.

[deadlypointer]

I have been holding back my breath for 2 days now, it still shows hold.

[bravoetch]

How does it matter what part of the cycle it stops on? Maybe better to show the timer is done. Maybe they can add a disclaimer for people that aren't sure if they should keep breathing when they're not being told to.

[cheekyturtles]

Sorry, it should be fixed now. The timer being multiples of a full cycle is something I'm going to add very soon, it annoys me a little bit too while using.

[weehuy]

I think it's because the wss connection drops out, least that was what was spammed in my console logs.

[russellbeattie]

> Am I allowed to exhale?

It stopped for me too. I hope someone answers this soon.

[doakes]

Same thing happened to me

[laweijfmvo]

I wonder how much is the specific technique vs. the fact that something like 4-7-8 requires you to pay attention to and focus on your breathing? Have their been any studies where participants were asked to do tasks while also box breathing etc?

[joemi]

I wonder the same thing too. Especially since there are all kinds of different techniques that people recommend. And because the ideal length of time for the different phases must surely vary from person to person, since it's a physiological thing and everyone's body is different. It really seems to me (disclaimer: I'm a layperson) like the important thing is just focusing on measured breathing, not the exact one-size-fits-all measure.

[JohnKemeny]

I have used 3-7 breathing to prepare for diving. Inhale 3 seconds, exhale 7 seconds, for at least a full minute, followed by hyperventilating 5 times.

Lets me hold my breath for 4–5 minutes if I don't move too much.

[cyberax]

Be VERY careful about hyperventilating!

It effectively removes the normally leftover carbon dioxide from blood, but it does not oxygenate blood significantly more than normal.

The end result: if you hold your breath after hyperventilation and start doing physical activities, you can get dangerously deoxygenated blood. Without the usual feeling of asphyxiation that is normally triggered by high CO2 content.

Deoxygenated blood + brain = fainting. Which can be lethal when swimming.

[semi-extrinsic]

You are probably well aware, but always worth highlighting the risk of shallow water blackout and death if you do this wrong and unsupervised. Always have a dive buddy.

Someone I went to school with almost died from this. Was in a coma for 48h and spent a month in hospital afterwards. And that was in a public swimming pool where he was discovered quite quickly.

[peripitea]

Can you elaborate? As others are saying this can be extremely dangerous. Normally I wouldn't just reiterate other comments but if it might save a life can't hurt to be sure.

[joleyj]

There should probably be an audible cue to go from exhaling to inhaling no?

[shermantanktop]

Agree! I could do this with my eyes closed if not for that. A simple "bip" noise or something.

[dartharva]

After a few cycles, the counter just completely stopped at the "Hold" phase! Damn good prank but could potentially harm someone gullible.

[bix6]

https://www.breathbelly.com/

This link is better imo because it also shows the standard box alongside the 4-7-8

[smalio]

For anyone wanting something portable, I stumbled across this iOS app a while back:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/box-breathing-meditation/id673...

Nothing fancy but it works. Been using the watch app during stressful meetings (nobody notices you're doing breathing exercises). Has all the standard box patterns plus some custom options.

[lbj]

Easily one of the worst UI's I've seen since 2020.

Timing the initial in/exhales is tricky, because the circle contracts, not to its center, but to a nearly invisible (on my screen at least) smaller circle in the middle. No visible counters.

After a while, it just says "Hold". No indication that we're done. And I sit there, almost dying for 2 minutes before realizing, that it's done some kind of quiet-quitting routine on me.

Other than that I enjoyed it.

[cheekyturtles]

Yes, apologies, the centre circle colour scheme was a terrible choice. I've changed it to something more visible. It looked like network errors were blocking the main thread so to speak, that shouldn't be an issue anymore.

I'm glad it's only the worse you have seen since 2020 though, I take that a little as a compliment because frontend design is not my strong point. This is just a fun little thing I made to help me relax before meetings etc.

[jensenbox]

Same - I kept holding and holding. I am now writing this from my grave.

[specialist]

I have chronic pain. I have the bad habit of holding my breath.

I've learned some different mindful breathing techniques. Very helpful. While I'm doing them.

But what about the rest of the day? How do I improve my breathing while I'm not paying attention?

My initial goal is consistent 6 breaths per minute. Keep breathing, in & out, in & out.

I'm looking for tools (feedback mechanisms) to monitor my breathing. Especially when I'm holding my breath.

Am noob, so I don't know the sciences. My understanding is that inferring breath from tracking heart rate variability works pretty good during sleep. (FWIW, my Apple Watch 10 says I average 8 bpm at night.)

I'd appreciate any tips, links, recommendations. I'd happily wear a device, just to get started.

[hankchinaski]

I feel the 4-7-8 is more natural than box breathing the length seems to align more with the natural breathing without constraining it to fixed length. I feel like exhaling takes usually longer than inhaling

[old-gregg]

I feel the opposite. Especially the part about NOT breathing for 7 (!) seconds, which doesn't feel naturall at all. Something like 4-2-5 would have been much closer to my natural. To me the benefit of this thread is the comments recommending other apps/methods.

[clocker]

Nice app! Wish there was a small interval between the cycles for catchup. After first cycle the next inhale starts immediately, and from the visualization you don't know exactly when the first cycle is going to end unless you keep the count yourself. I think after exhale there should be a gap of maybe 1 to catch up. INHALE-HOLD-EXHALE-CATCHTUP - inhaling for 4 counts, holding for 7, exhaling for 8, and catch up 1.

[cubefox]

This may be a stupid question, but why do we need to exercise breathing? We do it all the time anyway, shouldn't we be pretty good at it by now?

[vitro]

For me, it was playing a musical instrument (transverse flute, then shakuhachi) that showed me that I really don't know how to breathe deeply with my diaphragm. Or, that I wasn't aware of it at all, now my breathing is more conscious, and I tend to focus on it many times, for example, when I'm just walking on the street. Concentrating on your breath is a great way to stay rooted in the present and become aware of your thought processes. Breathing is magical :)

[knodi123]

not stupid at all! the idea is that practicing conscious breathing techniques can have effects on your stress levels and cognition and such. it's not that you're learning how to breathe, but rather how to breathe for a desired effect.

[Almondsetat]

People run, walk, and do all sort of things wrong even though they "practice" them daily

[peripitea]

You don't do breathing exercises to get better at breathing. It's for your brain.

[keybored]

I use my mind all the time. I’m not a meditator.

[TYMorningCoffee]

Click the ying yang looking icon to get an explanation

> 4-7-8 Breathing The 4-7-8 technique involves inhaling for 4 counts, holding for 7, and exhaling for 8. This pattern is repeated several times. Developed by Dr. Andrew Weil, it helps reduce anxiety, manage stress, and promote better sleep by triggering your body's natural relaxation response and slowing your heart rate.

[WuxiFingerHold]

Not a fan of apps like this, tbh. First, most of us need to learn proper diaphragmatic breathing, which is *not* belly breathing. Then just sit still without any "cosmic" sounds or timer-apps and bring awareness to the breath. Force nothing, just observe. Calmness and relaxation go hand in hand with letting go and surrender.

[londons_explore]

Unless you take really deep breaths, I feel like this is just going to end up with a slight oxygen deficiency...

[peripitea]

Get a cheap pulse oximeter and try it yourself if you're curious. It will not cause your oxygen levels to change in any meaningful way barring some very serious health issues.

[__turbobrew__]

> Unless you take really deep breaths

That is the entire point

[hn_throw2025]

That’s how it works.

[amai]

I had better experience with the 4-7-11 technique: inhale for 4 seconds, exhale for 7 seconds, repeating for 11 minutes:

https://github.com/mmazzarolo/breathly-app/issues/73

[HEagle]

This is from Indian Hindu text Hathayoga and known as Pranayam not the creation of Dr Andrew You should give the credit to the right text Patanjali Yoga Sutras . Again this should be practiced under a qualified Teacher

[nprateem]

The Android app Prana Breath is the best I've found for setting breathing ratios.

[ayhanfuat]

For me box breathing worked better (inhale 4 seconds, hold 4 seconds, exhale 4 seconds and hold 4 seconds). I use a little app called One Deep Breath. It had great effect on my blood pressure and anxiety.

[signa11]

from the website '... Developed by Dr. Andrew Weil, ... ' most certainly not. yoga practitioners have been doing this / similar exercises for quite a while now.

[babyent]

Nice!

Is there something wrong on my end? The IN animates fully, which is a nice visual cue. The HOLD remains static which is nice. But the OUT does not completely animate and it throws me off.

[Tmpod]

Looks fine to me. The circle grows when you're inhaling and shrinks when you're exhaling.

[HEagle]

Why the comment removed I said this breathing is in ancient Hindu scripture Patanjali Yoga Sutras???

[sxp]

For those who have a scientific interest in breathwork, I suggest James Nestor's _Breath_. It goes into the biological aspects with a minimum amount of woo. And for those who want a crash course, I recommend getting a getting a pulse oximeter or other real time heart rate tracker and experimenting with various breathing patterns (Google [box breathing], [resonance breathing], etc) to watch your heart rate change. It was one of the first biofeedback experiments I did and still an impressive demo of the power of breathwork to this day.

[laserbeam]

The correct way to recommend to the scientifically inclined to learn about breathwork “without the woo woo” is to point to a meta analysis. The first one I found suggests that yeah, breathwork can lead to lower stress but that most studies feel biased and can overhype most other benefits.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366645304_Effect_of...

To me, breathwork falls under that category of positive exercises that can give a boost in life. I would never overhype “the power of breathwork” to anyone. Just like going to the gym, yoga, dancing, and most other similar activities.

[yusina]

Or just ... breathe normally? Your body can handle this pretty well on its own.

What's the point of this hyper-optimization? (Unless it cures a condition obviously.)