[jbk]

And all this article is "just" about the building of the Java/Kotlin application :)

Native NDK is another can of worms, with updates linked to SDK or sometimes not, unclear documentation about device and API compatibilities, compiler behavior changes and other requirements (like the 16K one) that impact so many 3rd party native libraries.

But, of course, the rules on the uploading and the changes of the Console, that changes so often is what makes it painful.

The absolute nightmare is about giving Google the root signing key of your application, the unfinished business about app bundles (which should reduce the size of the downloaded app, and more often than not, make it bigger), the changes in compliance, letters to sign for different countries, the compatibility for Google form factors (XR, TV, Auto, Automotive), Inline installs and other Teacher Progams, Play for family and so on.

All of this changes non-stop and is very poorly documented :)

At least, the Play Store is still GPLv2 compatible, so for now, we're saved (VLC)

[petedoyle]

> The absolute nightmare is about giving Google the root signing key of your application

I wish more people talked about this. At Amazon, I helped with the early threat modeling around adoption of "App Signing by Google Play", which requires sending your app's root signing key to Google (and is now required, with no publicly-available opt-out for new apps.) It would have added some nice things for Android devs: app bundles, smaller downloads, instant apps, etc.

That said, we imagined the following scenario, and were unable to find a reasonable mitigation at the time:

It seems plausible the US government could send a NSL (or similar) to Google and force them to distribute modified APKs for apps like Signal (ex: to exfiltrate keys). This would be nearly impossible to detect, especially if the modified APK were distributed to only an individual user, or a small group. A few people raised concerns [1], but I don't recall Google ever giving a reasonable response.

[1] https://commonsware.com/blog/2020/09/23/uncomfortable-questi...

Edit: clarify no opt out applies to new apps

[nixosbestos]

Well, this is one of those HN comments that I will never forget. Someone wrote (and then removed after a buyer purchased it and required it's take down) a stylometry analyzer once for HN comments. A supposedly senior-y Google-r lambasted some Snowden slides commenting things were impossibly unimaginable inside Google (this was before it has done become widely accepted that internal services at such companies such of course be using some transport security). I got in some silly fight with someone ... 13+ years ago? These are specific things I remember. And now probably your comment.

I didn't trust stock Android before, and I felt the sinking-gut feeling as soon as I realized where "upload root signing key" was going, but spelling it out here puts a ... fine point on things.

Thanks for the comment.

[codethief]

> > The absolute nightmare is about giving Google the root signing key of your application

> It seems plausible the US government could send a NSL (or similar) to Google and force them to distribute modified APKs for apps like Signal

Since when do you have to hand over your signing keys to Google? I seem to remember the Signal devs saying that they preferred publishing their app on Google Play as opposed to F-Droid because in the former case they control the signing keys. Has this changed?

[baobun]

The require to get the private key? When they could ask for the cert and just cross-sign? Can't imagine any valid reason for that...

Would be nice to get a confirmation of this as it sounds wild.

[ashishb]

> Native NDK is another can of worms

Thanks for sharing this. I agree with your sentiment as one of my Android apps use vox SDK. However, my experience is very limited compared to you to write about it.

> The absolute nightmare is about giving Google the root signing key of your application,

I haven't and I don't think it is required.

> the unfinished business about app bundles

Can you elaborate what's unfinished here?

> the compatibility for Google form factors (XR, TV, Auto, Automotive),

My app is disabled for Android Auto in production. If I re-enable, then it gets rejected during the review. I have never been able to precise fix the issue they are raising to let me re-enable Android Auto.

For Chromecast (TV), I have to run a web server inside the app to serve the media.

[jbk]

> I haven't and I don't think it is required.

It is required, as soon as you have Android TV support, for example.

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2022/11/app-bundle...

See https://dev.to/npomepuy/vlc-for-android-updates-on-the-play-...

[pjmlp]

NDK is bad, feels like a 20% project, and I think if it wasn't for game devs, the userspace would be Java/Kotlin only, just like ChromeOS is V8 only, for all practical purposes.

However a good way to minimise headaches with NDK is to stay by the Google rules, it is a complement to Java/Kotlin, with a specific set of APIs, and not a way to pretend Android is GNU/Linux.

[flohofwoe]

Also, things like debugging suddenly stopping to work after upgrading NDK/SDK versions without a peep by adb about what might be the problem. But who needs debugging right? ;)

[jbk]

> But who needs debugging right? ;)

Debugging and testing is just for the non-believers.