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jiriknesl | 8 months ago

Religion is a major factor, that impacts your lifestyle, community, happiness and longevity. In most cases, positively. There are studies proving it.

So yes, most religions if not all are based on unscientific claims, but they make people's lives better.

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grafmax|8 months ago

These are merely correlational studies. Religion often makes people’s lives worse as well: sexual repression, homophobia, religious intolerance, fear of eternal damnation, misplaced guilt/shame, hours wasted on prayer/services/rituals, sheltered upbringings..

I think the underlying issue is whether a person views the objective appraisal of reality as a positive thing or not. For someone who doesn’t, self-deception may seem the better choice.

OJFord|8 months ago

> These are merely correlational studies. Religion often makes people’s lives worse as well.

I'm not religious, but that doesn't make any sense: those cases would weaken the correlation (or correlate it the other way), and now you're also claiming a causative effect that's opposite to the correlation you don't refute?

jiriknesl|8 months ago

Sorry for a super late answer.

The reason those studies are just correlational, is because in social sciences, you don't really have many other tools.

There are no axioms, deduction is impossible. So that part of the argument is not really all that much valid. You have no mechanism to make social sciences more exact.

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Yes, there are also negative outcomes. But positive ones are stronger than the negative ones.

And also, some of your examples are not negative at all. The point of fear of damnation for example is the reason why ethics were enforceable for hundreds or thousands of years, when the state was significantly weaker, there weren't real courts, etc. Shame and guilt are important motivators. They developed in humans to make correction of antisocial behaviors possible if you don't want just violently punish people for everything. Having no shame and guilt is an attribute of psychopaths.

jjude|8 months ago

All mental models are wrong. But some are more useful than others. Religion falls in this category.

IAmBroom|8 months ago

Religion can fall in this category.

The Taliban shows it is not always thus. Nothing is that simple.

LunaSea|8 months ago

In that case, why is that the most rich and developed countries are secular and not religious?

You would expect a population with "better lives" to outperform the rest.

TuringNYC|8 months ago

Not OP but perhaps you could consider Manifest Destiny and Capitalism as a religion?