Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

[camhayes]

I'm an American software engineer, but currently looking at graduate school in Europe. I'm about 18 months out from when I could reasonably start school. I've been hoping to find a pathway toward residence in one of the countries where those schools are before then. My hope is this would give me time to lay some foundations to make the grad school journey a bit easier (established living situation, EU financial foundation, better understanding of the language, etc.)

For any expats, I was curious what your pathway was to getting overseas? While I am EU Blue Card eligible, the straightforward method of applying to companies abroad hasn't netted any results, and I wonder if I'm missing any opportunities.

[whatevermom]

Sorry, English isn’t my native language, but do you want to start studying again in EU? In that case, you can apply for an education VISA. I don’t know what is a blue card, but I’d suggest looking at the country you want specifically rather than looking at Europe as a whole. The procedures will be similar between EU countries but in the end, you’re going to be talking to one specific embassy in America. Each countries have different levels of strictness.

[camhayes]

My goal is to study in EU (particularly Germany or France), but to first try to find employment there. Where I am having difficulty is finding a reliable method for setting up interviews with German/French software companies, and I was hoping for advice on what others may have done to succeed in that.

[tkiolp4]

Immigrant. That’s the term. I’m also an immigrant. There’s no shame on using the term.

[tempmigrant]

In English, immigrant means “a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country,” while expatriate means “a person who lives outside their native country.”

You might dislike how rich British bankers in Hong Kong are called expats, while poor Eritrean refugees in Britain are called immigrants. But technically, those usages are accurate.

Still, expatriate often carries the connotation of a higher-status person living in a lower- or similar-status country—like a British banker in Hong Kong. It doesn’t quite fit when someone of middle status moves laterally—say, an American recent graduate relocating to Europe. Migrant is denotatively correct, but the connotation doesn't quite match because in practice it used for low status or irregular immigrants.

In many such cases, it may be best to avoid using any of these terms at all. Temporary residence might be the term we’re looking for and it likely reflects the legal status as well.

[dnissley]

Expat has a more specific connotation than immigrant. It is not a synonym.

[m_dupont]

My Qualifications: I moved to Germany for 7 years

I can only add my voice to what others have said: Just apply to universities and get your student visa.

In general it is very difficult applying to jobs in countries from abroad, and in many countries they have laws requiring that companies must prove that they couldn't source talent locally first.

Meanwhile student visas are very easy to get, and after you are in the country on a student visa, you can seek part time work, or get a job as soon as you graduate. Many countries offer fast-track residence permits for expats who have graduated from one of their universities.

My story: I applied to a german university, got accepted, and got the student visa relatively painlessly. After graduating I found a job relatively quickly and got a work permit.

[m_dupont]

I have some more tips, specifically pertaining to Germany and your requirements:

> Language: In Germany you can get around no problem with 0 German. Me personally I downloaded Duolinguo the day before my flight and I did just fine learning as I went.

> EU financial foundation: I'd say you can just build a US financial foundation then send it over via bank transfer when u arrive.

> Established living situation: If you get accepted to a german university, try to show up at least a month before courses start. Take that time to open a bank account, get insurance, enrol and find an apartment. Do NOT try to find a rental when you don't have boots on the ground, there are a bunch of scams that target international students trying to secure accomodation. For your first month or so, just stay in an airbnb until you find a place you like long-term

>

[michpoch]

> For any expats, I was curious what your pathway was to getting overseas?

So... any expats? Or Americans moving overseas? Or people from the USA moving to EU countries? These will be wildly different scenarios.

For me it was signing a work contract in Switzerland and moving there from an EU country. The path to get that job was by finishing a good uni and having some work experience already while studying. Not sure this helps you much...

[NalNezumi]

I think you got it reversed. Most people go to Europe (or most first world really) FIRST as a student, get an understanding of the place + connection + trust and THEN apply for job. It's good I think that you want to be prepared for the study, but usually programs that welcomes international students don't strictly require that and instead offer it too, as part of study

Applying for job out of the blue is notoriously hard, even with right qualifications (IT for example) at right time (not recession). Even my EU citizen friend struggled finding job in London (pre-brexit), another got a "work-application visa" in Netherlands, and didn't find anything for a year, even with a degree from an EU university. She got an offer too late, by contact in her previous residence, so still it was through networking.

You can still ofc find jobs. There are forums, job boards, events to connect with people. But for Europe, unlike US you're well protected as a worker. This makes hiring more risky and employer a bit more cautious, which means you're extra disadvantaged as a guy applying from abroad, because they can't gauge trust. Networking (knowing right people, have the right degree/school/job on your resume) is still powerful in Europe.

As for my story: was (kind of?) expat in Japan for 5 years, although my mother is Japanese (but I'm born and raised in Europe) so being able to speak the language & understand culture put me in a native-expat middle ground. I found a job through an "IT Talent from abroad recruitment service". Many of my expat/migrant coworkers found job the same way, although they usually had PhD or Master degree to help their visa application.

Still, the biggest help to land a job was the language fluency + I had gone to an exchange program at one of their top 3 university (although only for 6 month, enough to land "trust points")

[bojan]

What do you mean by "graduate school" exactly, is that a Master's or a PhD? If it's the latter, in the Netherlands you get paid salary to do it and it's the easiest path to a work/residence visa. Keep in mind though that our housing market is abysmal.

Alternatively, if you really want to go via an employment, look into the companies that have permission to ask for a knowledge migrant visa: https://ind.nl/en/public-register-recognised-sponsors/public...

[nicbou]

From Canada to Germany. I went for an internship in university, never came back. That was a decade ago.

As a student, the internship visa or student visa are great options. It's a lot easier because of all the help you get from university. There is a lot of infrastructure in place to welcome and integrate students.

I run a website about migrating to Germany: https://allaboutberlin.com

[elros]

What do you mean with expat? You'd like to get an employer in the US that sends you to work in the EU on their behalf?

[q3k]

"expat" means "immigrant" but it's used by people who believe they are somehow above others

[camhayes]

Expat to mean residence in a non-US country. So it would mean an offer from an EU-based company to either sponsor a residence visa or one that qualifies for Blue Card. Either way, an offer is needed in the EU.

[lipowitz]

This doesn't make much sense to me.. A company generally doesn't want an employee who is going to go to grad school in 18 months unless there is a lot of invested value or connection. Are US companies interested in talking to you after you state this goal?

[vouaobrasil]

You should not be applying to companies if you are interested in graduate school. You should be applying to graduate school to get a student visa. Then apply for companies near the end of your degree.

[apwell23]

> pathway toward residence

so an immigrant?

expat is usually a temporary situation .

[camhayes]

I don’t necessarily have plans to maintain residence after school

[keiferski]

Immigrating to the EU is becoming increasingly difficult. Do you have any family connections or ancestry? That will be an easier route than grad school or a job.

[nicbou]

Not at all. From a legal perspective it gets easier and easier. From a technical perspective too. The biggest hurdles in Germany are the housing market and the job market. Both favour locals.