This makes a lot of sense to me. When you ride in an Uber or a taxi, you're a guest in the driver's space. In a Waymo, it's your own space. You can play music, talk on the phone, etc. without worrying about disturbing the driver. You're not likely to have strong odors, or driver's phone conversations. And the experience will be roughly consistent each time. In an Uber, you have no idea what the car or the driving standards will be like until you're in it. I trust my own driving over a Waymo, but I'd trust Waymo over an average Uber driver, let alone a bad one.
I've had some nice conversations with Uber drivers, but I've had some unpleasant rides too. I'd definitely pay a bit extra for a good driverless car. ('Good' being key. After trying out the Tesla FSD beta a couple times though, you couldn't pay me to ride in one of those without the ability to grab control.)
I mix and match but I’ll take a Waymo if it’s <= $5 more for these reasons:
1. Literally zero variance. Every car is the same. Every driver is the same style. If it says it’ll be there in 7 minutes it will be 7, not 5 and not 10.
2. A jaguar SUV is a premium vehicle. It’s comparable to an Uber black not a regular Uber.
3. It’s so child friendly. My son can make all the noise he wants and I can take time loading him in without a driver being impatient.
4. They’re very clean. I’ve never been in a dirty or bad smelling Waymo. That’s very nice.
5. No aggressive driving. I’ve had Ubers that scare me weaving between lanes above the speed limit. A Waymo is always smooth.
I'm willing to pay more for a better ride experience:
* Waymos are all the same. I underrated the value of this until I started taking Waymo more often.
* I can control the music and volume with my phone.
* I can listen to YouTube or take a call without AirPods. Sometimes I even hotspot and do some work.
But most importantly Waymos all _drive_ the same way. I have had some really perplexing Uber drivers, either driving in a confused and circuitous way, distracted by YouTube, or just driving dangerously. I am more confident that I will have a safe ride in a Waymo than in an Uber.
Waymos will get cheaper to make as they scale up. The Ioniq version [1] costs less to build. All the sheet metal and mechanical mods for Waymo are done at the Hyundai factory in Georgia.[2] Waymo just mounts the electronics.
Jobs at the Hyundai factory start at $23.66/hour, with reasonably good benefits.[3]
As a Waymo-booster on HN for a while now, here's my latest anecdote. I tried to figure out how to take Waymo to LAX even though it's not actually in their territory yet just because I value the experience so much. I was borderline going to take it within walking distance (about half a mile), but got lazy at the last minute. I took Lyft instead, and, as if the universe cursed my laziness, I booked a "comfort" car for $3 more than the base level Lyft. At first I was going to get a Tesla Model Y to take me, but that cancelled. Instead, what must have been a first generation Honda Pilot picked me up, suspension creaking and muffler that had seen better days. Did Lyft recognize what they sent instead of the "comfort" they promised and therefore charge me $3 less? Of course not. When I tried to contact customer service I ran into what I'm sure plenty of HN people have, which is a dead end where you report the issue and they (programmatically?) adjudicate the complaint on the spot. Their determination? I wasn't entitled to a $3 refund. Ironic that the rideshare app with human drivers doesn't allow me to contact their customer service whereas Waymo has no problem with it (yeah, yeah, I get it, "we'll see once they reach a huge scale." But today the experience is so much better than Uber or Lyft that while it lasts I will bask in its driverless glory).
I've had a couple bad experiences with Lyft recently, including one time the driver must have clicked that they picked me up while a block away, because I could see the lyft driving to the destination without me. I tried to get a refund since I was obviously waiting my start location the whole time, but the system claimed the drive went from start to finish (even though I wasn't in the car), so no refund.
> Their determination? I wasn't entitled to a $3 refund.
Frustratingly, Lyft’s position on this is that if you don’t like the car that arrives you should reject it when it arrives, otherwise you’re not entitled to a (even partial) refund, even when they know on their end that the car they sent doesn’t match what you paid extra for.
Uber has done that to me. You pick a class but what you get seems unrelated.
I need more space for luggage and such and ... some "mid-sized" SUV picks me up that has about as much space a regular sedan anyway ... often the same type of vehicle that picked me up the previous day as a regular vehicle.
Tip: You can take Waymo to just outside the economy lot, then hop on the shuttle to the terminals. The shuttles have their own dedicated lane for going around the loop, so this isn't even that much more time. It's my new favorite way to get to LAX.
Charges for goods not delivered as agreed falls under the protection of the Fair Credit Billing Act. If you made a good faith attempt to resolve with the merchant (which you did) you should use your credit card to charge back the amount (some let you request a partial charge back, but if not you can request a full one and explain in the extra info that you want a partial one).
This might not seem worth it for $3, but if they get a lot of these the credit cards/banks might start giving them a hard time about it, so I think it's worth the minor hassle (everything can be done via the credit card app usually)
Before Uber and Lyft destroyed the functioning taxi market, you got Mercedes by default for a traditional, regulated taxi in many EU countries.
You didn't have to argue, interact with a surveillance company, interact with customer service etc. All you needed to do is pick up the phone and get a luxury ride without tracking or surveillance.
- To not feel weird about the little things like talking or rolling down my windows or setting an AC Temperature
- To know exactly when and where my driver will pick me up down to the exact curb.
- To not have to make small talk with a person. Even when requesting quiet preferred you’ll get an uber driver who wants to share their life story or trauma dump on you.
- To not die. I’ve been in some terrifying Ubers with either bad drivers or just exhausted ones.
The last time I got an Uber, it was driven by a young fellow who looked to be in his first year of driving (I could be wrong), the car smelled like mothballs and was obviously in poor shape, and he accidentally drove on the wrong side of a divided road for a block or so (he was apologetic). The last time I tried a regular taxi stand, the car looked even worse, and it broke down. So, we called Lyft, and the driver could not find where we were because it was not a normal address (she was trying her best, but her English was not up to the task of understanding our explanation).
Waymo's selling point might be that its cars are all in good shape (right now), and customers know this.
This is amazing. Don't forget that by you doing this you're taking us one step closer to AI replacing not just the job of drivers but the jobs of all of us. Good sides and bad sides.
Hopefully we won't get there and only uber drivers are the ones screwed. Since you and I aren't uber drivers, we don't really care do we?
A robot isn’t going to decide it doesn’t want to take my ride after accepting it and drive around aimlessly hoping I’ll get tired of waiting and cancel. I haven’t needed Uber/Lyft on a regular basis in several years, but back when I did that was a frequently recurring problem.
This doesn't surprise me at all.
I work in the EU but recently the Americans we hire are very hesitant to have conversations with service providers. They will pay more to use a service that has an app, rather than call up another taxi company by phone for example (and it's not a language barrier problem, because everyone speaks english). I can see this extending to not wanting to have a driver in their taxi.
I see this with UK people recently too. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not saying it's not an EU thing at all, but from my vantage point, the behavior is most prevalent in Americans
Edit: After reading this thread, it's possible this could be sampling bias and more of a cross-country generational thing from mellennials down. (I am a mellennial too)
In Austin, Waymos are hailed via the Uber app, which will quote you a price which is good for either a conventional Uber or a Waymo, and you get a Waymo if one is available. Same price. The Waymo is actually cheaper because there's no tip.
The issue I have with Waymo is that getting in and out of those i-Paces as a "person of height" is rather difficult - I really have to do a strange contortion - and if I want to sit in the right rear, there's nobody in front to pull the seat up for me so there's not enough legroom. (I've moved to adjusting and sitting in the front passenger seat when I get a Waymo, something human Uber drivers hate.)
Do you always tip uber/lyft drivers? I usually only will if they get out of the car and help me load or unload a heavy (40+ lbs) suitcase. If they just push the trunk open button, I'm neither giving a 5 star review nor a tip ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Reading the comments here, the experiences people are sharing feels out-of-world since I live in Tokyo and it's unthinkable to have a bad experience in a Taxi/Shareride like that. They've always been very professional, the highest quality I could expect. Cars always clean, driver always polite, etc. Sure, there WILL be some edge case out there, but I've ridden taxis and Uber many times here and not a single odd experience, nothing at all like what is being described in these messages.
People are eager to pay money to not deal with other people. Which makes me pessimistic about the future of humanity given recent developments in AI really
Assuming the rides are comparable, the article has a table which includes price/km (weird) of Lyft: $7.99, Uber: $8.36, and Waymo: $11.22. On that data, Waymo is roughly 40% higher, so way more than just a tip.
The Waymo cars are really comfortable luxury Jaguars. For Uber and Lyft there are many price tiers, but to reliably get an equally or more comfortable car you probably need to book the black car options. I’m sure Uber / Lyft are way more expensive per mile than Waymo on that tier.
In addition to all the things people have pointed out that makes it a better experience.
Almost every Uber Black and Black SUV I’ve ordered was a Chevy Suburban or GMC Yukon.
The quality is across the board, but one thing I’ve found consistent is the terrible quality seats. The seats feel like it’s just cardboard supporting you that pops in and out as you move with the car.
It’s rare to get an actual luxury car even when paying more.
Their promise of “professional” drivers is also wild. Sometimes you get a guy who’s friendly and seems eager to please and helpful with luggage, but I’ve had plenty of downright rude drivers who feel inconvenienced by my presence.
Electronic vehicles have made riding in Uber's an almost uniformly nauseating experience (literally). In order of preference I will walk/bike -> public transit -> Waymo -> drive myself -> consider staying at home -> Uber/Lyft
Speaking to a European woman, she said she was not surprised women would pay more not to be harassed. I guess in her country there is more of that. Me, I enjoy human interaction, but the European female angle on taxi "safety" was something I hadn't considered.
As a man I thankfully haven't ever really felt unsafe (in this way anyways, definitely some bad/distracted Uber drivers) but I could see women or kids finding Waymos to be a safer overall experience worth a premium
Recently my daughter and I had to take a Uber home from airport at 11pm. I did not like the driver and I did not like the situation and I seriously was considering exit plans if he started going off the normal route.
The next time I had to take a late Uber I paid up for Uber Premium, which is maybe imperfect reasoning but the driver was pleasant and polite and didn't give any bad vibes.
my eastern european mind cannot comprehend 2 things:
- if the average price per ride is $20.43 and average price per km is $11.22 does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry..
- if the higher prices are really influenced by costs of operating AV and not simple greed fueled by "offering a better product", how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US? In Bratislava where I'm from the UberX price per km outside surges are lower than 1€ (there's a minimum price per ride of 4.50€ though, but a ride to the airport which is 9km away is 7.41€ now (and that's without the frequent discounts Uber offers, currently I have a 30% discount offered and it would cost me 5.19€ with the discount)...
> does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry..
Idk about the average but I used to make a bad joke that walking is considered an extreme sport in most of the US. Sometimes, it’s for legit reasons such as extreme heat, literally no sidewalks, and areas that are perceived as dangerous because of the people there. Other times it’s just seen as a discomfort ”why walk when you can sit in a large car”. This is reflected in language, where ”walkable” is a frequent term used to describe the often rare parts of urban areas where you can comfortably walk from A to B. In EU there’s often no need for such a term.
> how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US?
Why not share my prediction, it’s probably as bad as the rest of them: I think this stage right now is about viability. Getting training data and real road experience, knowing what sensors are needed, range of road conditions, and grasping the enormous amount of novel traffic situations. I don’t think the purpose of the pricing is to make profits, but rather to test the markets end-to-end. Essentially, it’s an R&D project designed to inform and instill confidence for future investing and scaling.
As for replacing human drivers, I think it’ll be region-by-region with a very long tail. Since cost of labor varies so much, you’d need many years to bring costs of vehicles and maintenance down to be competitive. Plus, expanding to new regions have huge fixed costs and risk, much more so with AVs than normal ”Uber-style” services, with BYO labor & vehicle. These things need service centers, depots, offices, probably quite densely, no? Not to mention the politics, unions etc.
One of the most recent Uber rides I took was in Orlando. As the crow flies it was almost exactly 500 meters from point to point, but Google has it as a 50 minute, 4km walk. Most of the US is really not set up for walking.
In most of the US it's not really possible/safe to walk between buildings just because of how everything got built. Often it would involve crossing six lane divided highways etc. That's why you see so many threads here talking about bikes/transit/urban design etc.
Say you want to pick up some groceries. In most US cities there is no nearby small market; in some cities there are, but it varies widely. So either you can get takeout, or you can go from 1 (median) to 2.6 (average) miles to a grocery store. You could bike, but most US cities don't have good bike infrastructure (and let's face it, we're lazy). If there is public transit it's slow and unreliable.
Rideshare prices can also be 2x more expensive depending on the city. One city's average price is $7, another's is $17. Some cities are more compact, some are more spread out, some have fewer drivers, some have more, some have a lower cost of living, some higher, some have more suburban drivers, some fewer.
I'll take an Uber if I have luggage. If it's raining heavily. If I'm in a hurry because the play is about to start and there's no late seating. If I'm on a date and she's wearing high heels. Etc.
Just because people are sometimes taking Ubers for short distances doesn't mean they're usually taking Ubers for short distances.
Uber isn't a way of life. It's a tool for when you need it.
> does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry..
Like 95% of the US is setup to actively discourage walking. As a result the average USian thinks walking to your destination is fundamentally undignified or at best an act of desperation (outside of a few particular circumstances such as being on a college campus or at Disney World). I have once seen a friend (of a friend) call an Uber for a .3km trip (~2.5 city blocks, longwise).
I and a friend visited California, ending in San Diego. We figured out we didn't need the rental car for the last few days, so we asked the hotel clerk how to get back from the car dropoff at the airport. "You could Uber ..." but had no suggestion for an alternative.
It was lovely SoCal weather, with the sun close to setting over the bay. But the idea of walking it seemed far from at least the clerk's mind.
I believe many of my fellow Americans feel the same. I'm one of the oddballs that would walk 1 1/2 miles home after clubbing rather than drive - something likely only possible for guys as the streets at 1am were empty of anyone walking.
Which also means I've had my share of walks where the sidewalk ended, or where I wasn't legally allowed to go further. That's the American way. /s
[+] [-] tempestn|9 months ago|reply
I've had some nice conversations with Uber drivers, but I've had some unpleasant rides too. I'd definitely pay a bit extra for a good driverless car. ('Good' being key. After trying out the Tesla FSD beta a couple times though, you couldn't pay me to ride in one of those without the ability to grab control.)
[+] [-] habosa|9 months ago|reply
1. Literally zero variance. Every car is the same. Every driver is the same style. If it says it’ll be there in 7 minutes it will be 7, not 5 and not 10.
2. A jaguar SUV is a premium vehicle. It’s comparable to an Uber black not a regular Uber.
3. It’s so child friendly. My son can make all the noise he wants and I can take time loading him in without a driver being impatient.
4. They’re very clean. I’ve never been in a dirty or bad smelling Waymo. That’s very nice.
5. No aggressive driving. I’ve had Ubers that scare me weaving between lanes above the speed limit. A Waymo is always smooth.
[+] [-] pkrecker|9 months ago|reply
* Waymos are all the same. I underrated the value of this until I started taking Waymo more often.
* I can control the music and volume with my phone.
* I can listen to YouTube or take a call without AirPods. Sometimes I even hotspot and do some work.
But most importantly Waymos all _drive_ the same way. I have had some really perplexing Uber drivers, either driving in a confused and circuitous way, distracted by YouTube, or just driving dangerously. I am more confident that I will have a safe ride in a Waymo than in an Uber.
[+] [-] Animats|9 months ago|reply
Jobs at the Hyundai factory start at $23.66/hour, with reasonably good benefits.[3]
[1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/10/waymo-and-hyundai-enter-partn...
[2] https://www.hmgma.com/
[3] https://careers-americas.hyundai.com/hmgma/job/Ellabell-Prod...
[+] [-] harmmonica|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] rfurmani|8 months ago|reply
[+] [-] paulgb|9 months ago|reply
Frustratingly, Lyft’s position on this is that if you don’t like the car that arrives you should reject it when it arrives, otherwise you’re not entitled to a (even partial) refund, even when they know on their end that the car they sent doesn’t match what you paid extra for.
[+] [-] duxup|9 months ago|reply
I need more space for luggage and such and ... some "mid-sized" SUV picks me up that has about as much space a regular sedan anyway ... often the same type of vehicle that picked me up the previous day as a regular vehicle.
[+] [-] thanatosmin|8 months ago|reply
[+] [-] usehand|9 months ago|reply
This might not seem worth it for $3, but if they get a lot of these the credit cards/banks might start giving them a hard time about it, so I think it's worth the minor hassle (everything can be done via the credit card app usually)
[+] [-] bgwalter|8 months ago|reply
You didn't have to argue, interact with a surveillance company, interact with customer service etc. All you needed to do is pick up the phone and get a luxury ride without tracking or surveillance.
[+] [-] meindnoch|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] jopsen|9 months ago|reply
I miss rideshare service, in Denmark we have mess of expensive high quality taxis that you cannot get hold of when you need one.
[+] [-] Jelthi|9 months ago|reply
- To support cool technology
- To ride in a high end car of known quality
- To listen to my music and at any volume
- To not feel weird about the little things like talking or rolling down my windows or setting an AC Temperature
- To know exactly when and where my driver will pick me up down to the exact curb.
- To not have to make small talk with a person. Even when requesting quiet preferred you’ll get an uber driver who wants to share their life story or trauma dump on you.
- To not die. I’ve been in some terrifying Ubers with either bad drivers or just exhausted ones.
[+] [-] rossdavidh|9 months ago|reply
Waymo's selling point might be that its cars are all in good shape (right now), and customers know this.
[+] [-] PessimalDecimal|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] shawn_w|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] aerostable_slug|9 months ago|reply
Another Waymo selling point is its universal (since they're all the same) ability to communicate with anyone.
[+] [-] ninetyninenine|9 months ago|reply
Hopefully we won't get there and only uber drivers are the ones screwed. Since you and I aren't uber drivers, we don't really care do we?
[+] [-] cosmic_cheese|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] greybox|9 months ago|reply
I see this with UK people recently too. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not saying it's not an EU thing at all, but from my vantage point, the behavior is most prevalent in Americans
Edit: After reading this thread, it's possible this could be sampling bias and more of a cross-country generational thing from mellennials down. (I am a mellennial too)
[+] [-] iwanttocomment|9 months ago|reply
The issue I have with Waymo is that getting in and out of those i-Paces as a "person of height" is rather difficult - I really have to do a strange contortion - and if I want to sit in the right rear, there's nobody in front to pull the seat up for me so there's not enough legroom. (I've moved to adjusting and sitting in the front passenger seat when I get a Waymo, something human Uber drivers hate.)
[+] [-] gorfian_robot|8 months ago|reply
[+] [-] kylehotchkiss|8 months ago|reply
[+] [-] franciscop|8 months ago|reply
[+] [-] oytis|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] dawnerd|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] killion|9 months ago|reply
1. Tip – Uber and Lyft cost 20% more than the ride price.
2. Car quality – Sure, a Corolla on Lyft is cheaper than Waymo. But once you select something desirable the price goes up, a lot.
[+] [-] Pingk|9 months ago|reply
Are Uber/Lyft still cheaper after a 10-15% tip?
[+] [-] toast0|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] arealaccount|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Jelthi|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] vpribish|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] nashashmi|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] cvsv|9 months ago|reply
In addition to all the things people have pointed out that makes it a better experience.
[+] [-] Jelthi|9 months ago|reply
The quality is across the board, but one thing I’ve found consistent is the terrible quality seats. The seats feel like it’s just cardboard supporting you that pops in and out as you move with the car.
It’s rare to get an actual luxury car even when paying more.
Their promise of “professional” drivers is also wild. Sometimes you get a guy who’s friendly and seems eager to please and helpful with luggage, but I’ve had plenty of downright rude drivers who feel inconvenienced by my presence.
[+] [-] femiagbabiaka|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] xnx|9 months ago|reply
I've heard this a lot. Are drivers heavily accelerating and decelerating?
[+] [-] somewhatrandom9|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] atlasunshrugged|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] nineplay|9 months ago|reply
The next time I had to take a late Uber I paid up for Uber Premium, which is maybe imperfect reasoning but the driver was pleasant and polite and didn't give any bad vibes.
[+] [-] black3r|9 months ago|reply
- if the average price per ride is $20.43 and average price per km is $11.22 does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry..
- if the higher prices are really influenced by costs of operating AV and not simple greed fueled by "offering a better product", how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US? In Bratislava where I'm from the UberX price per km outside surges are lower than 1€ (there's a minimum price per ride of 4.50€ though, but a ride to the airport which is 9km away is 7.41€ now (and that's without the frequent discounts Uber offers, currently I have a 30% discount offered and it would cost me 5.19€ with the discount)...
[+] [-] klabb3|9 months ago|reply
Idk about the average but I used to make a bad joke that walking is considered an extreme sport in most of the US. Sometimes, it’s for legit reasons such as extreme heat, literally no sidewalks, and areas that are perceived as dangerous because of the people there. Other times it’s just seen as a discomfort ”why walk when you can sit in a large car”. This is reflected in language, where ”walkable” is a frequent term used to describe the often rare parts of urban areas where you can comfortably walk from A to B. In EU there’s often no need for such a term.
> how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US?
Why not share my prediction, it’s probably as bad as the rest of them: I think this stage right now is about viability. Getting training data and real road experience, knowing what sensors are needed, range of road conditions, and grasping the enormous amount of novel traffic situations. I don’t think the purpose of the pricing is to make profits, but rather to test the markets end-to-end. Essentially, it’s an R&D project designed to inform and instill confidence for future investing and scaling.
As for replacing human drivers, I think it’ll be region-by-region with a very long tail. Since cost of labor varies so much, you’d need many years to bring costs of vehicles and maintenance down to be competitive. Plus, expanding to new regions have huge fixed costs and risk, much more so with AVs than normal ”Uber-style” services, with BYO labor & vehicle. These things need service centers, depots, offices, probably quite densely, no? Not to mention the politics, unions etc.
[+] [-] ascorbic|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] msgodel|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] 0xbadcafebee|9 months ago|reply
Rideshare prices can also be 2x more expensive depending on the city. One city's average price is $7, another's is $17. Some cities are more compact, some are more spread out, some have fewer drivers, some have more, some have a lower cost of living, some higher, some have more suburban drivers, some fewer.
[+] [-] crazygringo|9 months ago|reply
I'll take an Uber if I have luggage. If it's raining heavily. If I'm in a hurry because the play is about to start and there's no late seating. If I'm on a date and she's wearing high heels. Etc.
Just because people are sometimes taking Ubers for short distances doesn't mean they're usually taking Ubers for short distances.
Uber isn't a way of life. It's a tool for when you need it.
[+] [-] tech_ken|8 months ago|reply
Like 95% of the US is setup to actively discourage walking. As a result the average USian thinks walking to your destination is fundamentally undignified or at best an act of desperation (outside of a few particular circumstances such as being on a college campus or at Disney World). I have once seen a friend (of a friend) call an Uber for a .3km trip (~2.5 city blocks, longwise).
[+] [-] eesmith|9 months ago|reply
We then looked at the map - https://www.brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=15/32.7236/-117.1779... . It was 2km, all on sidewalks. My friend dropped off the car and walked back.
It was lovely SoCal weather, with the sun close to setting over the bay. But the idea of walking it seemed far from at least the clerk's mind.
I believe many of my fellow Americans feel the same. I'm one of the oddballs that would walk 1 1/2 miles home after clubbing rather than drive - something likely only possible for guys as the streets at 1am were empty of anyone walking.
Which also means I've had my share of walks where the sidewalk ended, or where I wasn't legally allowed to go further. That's the American way. /s