I believe the article is based on a wrong assumption. The author argues that everything could look more realistic and that VFX could pop more with stronger HDR, but in my opinion it makes a lot of sense to keep a stylized cartoon game also stylized in its brightness choices.
When you drive towards the sun, what is more fun? A realistic HDR brightness that blinds you, or a „wrong“ brightness level that helps the background stay in the background without interrupting your flow? Similarly, should eye candy like little sparks grab your attention by being the brightest object on screen? I’d say no.
The hardware can handle full HDR and more brightness, but one could argue that the game is more fun with incorrect brightness scaling…
The game should look like a normal Mario game at a minimum. It should use its additional color palette available in HDR to look better, and the additional brightness to make make effects pop as you describe.
The problem is that’s not what it’s doing. Some things pop better, but it’s not because they’re using extra colors. It may be a little brightness, but mostly it’s that everything else just got toned down so it looks kinda washed out.
If they did nothing but use the expanded color palette and did not use the additional brightness at all I would be a lot happier than with what we have right now.
I haven’t turned it back to SDR mode but I’m legitimately considering it. Because I suspect the game looks better that way.
Every game I first start requires a trip to turn off music, in-game VoIP, HDR, bloom, lensflare, screenshake if possible.
It's like a keyword bingo for usually poor implementations. I grant that maybe the implementation is good for any specific game you care to mention - but history has shaped my habits.
I agree on the HDR blinding you, its mostly just a gimmick. Where it works is in for example Diablo 4 when there is something really shiny lying on the ground, which makes it pop out.
Other games like Senua did actually manage to pull off an amazing sun/scene though. Because its slower they can use it to accentuate, for example you walk around a corner and go from the darkness into full on sunlight which is blinding, but then falls off so as to become bearable.
Not to detract from your point, but ironically if they created the design with a more "HDR" (i.e. physically based) colour pipeline, it would probably be easier to tune the brightness of the sun correctly...
> But when Gamers in ESA surveys report that the quality of the graphics being the #2 factor in deciding when to purchase a game
Somehow I doubt this survey is representative of the typical Mario Kart player. And to those for whom it is a concern, I don't think SDR is high on the list relative to framerate, pop-in, and general "see where I'm going and need to go next" usability.
I personally find HDR as one of the most impactful recent display tech, but there are plenty of hoops to jump through before you get to that experience.
You need a real HDR display (800 nits+), FALD or OLED for contrast, some calibration, and software that uses it well (really hit and miss at least on Windows).
Once all the stars align, the experience is amazing. Doom Eternal has one of the best HDR implementations on PC, and I suggest trying it once on a good display before writing HDR off as a gimmick.
There’s something about how taillights of a car in a dark street in Cyberpunk look, and that just can’t be replicated on an SDR display afaict.
Then you have some games where it’s implemented terribly and it looks washed out and worse than SDR. Some people go through the pain and mod them to look right, or you just disable HDR with those.
I’d vouch for proper HDR any day, that being said I wouldn’t expect it to improve Mario Kart much even with a proper implementation. The art style of the game itself is super bright for that cheery mood, and no consumer display will be able to show 1000nits with 99% of the frame at full brightness. It’ll likely look almost the same as SDR.
On the other hand I find it the lamest and most annoying "feature" of the last 10 years. The article itself is a good demonstration (at least on my M1 MBP): as soon as an image has a single pixels row displayed, the luminosity of the whole page fades, and the reverse happens when no image is in sight. The comparison video is the first time ever I see the tech doing anything else than changing the luminosity of the screen.
This is the problem we have right now. Cheap nasty displays that put HDR on the box and are totally trash. Most people aren't buying $4000 Sony OLED TVs, they're buying the $300 SANGUULQ brand on Black Friday sale at Wal-mart.
One reason for keeping Apple hardware around is a decent display test bench. I do the best I can with image work, but once it leaves your hands it's a total lottery.
Fair point I suppose, but honestly I don't really care. The game looks plenty bright and colorful and Mario-y, and I certainly never stopped to notice banding in the sky or lack of detail in the clouds.
There are about a thousand other things in any given game that matter more to me than HDR tone mapping, and I'm happy for developers to focus on those things. The one exception might be a game where you spend a lot of time in the dark - like Resident Evil or Luigi's mansion.
Looking at his example video where he compares Godfall Ultimate footage to Mario Kart - I quite dislike the HDR in Godfall Ultimate. Certain elements like health bars, red crystals, and sparks are emphasized way too much, to the detraction of character and environment design. I find Mario Kart to be much more tasteful. That's not to say that Mario Kart World couldn't be better looking in HDR, but the author doesn't really do a compelling job showing how. In the side-by-side examples with "real" HDR, I prefer the game as-is.
There's someone that did the job to actually figuring out how to make the HDR of the switch work, but it needs your display to support certain features to be correct https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X84e14oe6gs
The most unpleasant effect from cut-rate HDR is when graphics with bright backgrounds get lazy-mapped to HDR.
Perhaps the worst offender I've ever seen was the Mafia remake by Hangar 17, which loads every time with a sequence of studio logos with white backgrounds that cut from black. The RGB(255,255,255) backgrounds get stretched to maximum HDR nits, and the jump from RGB(0,0,0) (especially on an OLED) is absolutely eye-searing.
I literally had to close my eyes whenever I'd load the game.
The intrinsic research and analysis behind this article are great. I’m having a hard time, though, not tripping over the obvious (tell me I’m wrong!) ChatGPT “polish”. Multilevel tutorial outlines, bolded key points, “X is Y—not Z”, …
I can’t articulate why it bothers me. Except maybe the implied assumption that the author’s real voice & style benefit more than they are harmed from being submerged in what is ultimately mathematically derived mush.
I know why it bothers me. It's lazy. Just look at those telltale fucking bulleted lists. The same point, re-phrased slightly; the shit you thought was clever when you were 15 years old, bullshitting your way through a high school history exam.
If you consider your writing bad enough to warrant a LLM fluffing pass, I consider it no better than the 99% of worse than mediocre, lazy, attention grabbing bullshit without real intellectual quality that pollutes the internet.
> HDR is mainstream – From just a quick browsing of BestBuy, nearly all TVs over 42” are 4K and support HDR. 9th gen consoles are shipping with HDR on by default. The majority of your audience is HDR-equipped.
"Mainstream" or "majority" in context of Nintendo is a $20-40k/yr white collar household with 2 kids. The REAL mainstream. Some would have real ashtrays on a dining table. ~None of them had bought any of TVs over 42" with 4K resolution and HDR support in past 10 years.
Though, I do wonder how globally mainstream is such a household buying Nintendo hardware. Admittedly it could be somewhat of a local phenomenon.
You’re probably underestimating how many “real” mainstream families still have a TV. A 4k HDR tv is cheaper than a Switch 2. Hell, you can get a 75” 4k HDR tv for the same price. The cheapest 55” 4k HDR tv at Walmart ($238) is almost half the price of a Switch 2 ($450)
TVs are a very cost effective home entertainment device, and 4k HDR is the default these days.
Interesting article and it's great that it touches on colour science concepts. IMO "HDR" is one of the most commonly misunderstood and butchered graphics terms out there. A lot of people who probably should understand it (artists, photographers, designers, computer graphics engineers) don't understand it. Like the author mentions, the industry has been stuck in SDR world for historical reasons and probably because SDR is a fudge that looks good enough most of the time. Hence a proliferation of poor understanding and poor colour pipelines. Also, interestingly, even with decent colour science there is still an art to it, so you can do a lot of things which are half correct and it doesn't obviously look bad to most people.
What surprised me is why a new game from a big studio, designed to support "HDR", would not be designed all in linear space to begin with. Because then doing tone mapping correctly for different display technologies becomes easy. However my knowledge is mostly from the photography world so perhaps someone with game knowledge can weigh in.
> You might look at the HDR representations of this game and think “Wait, the game appears more colorful” and this is because of the Hunt Effect. The Hunt Effect describes how we think a brighter color is more saturated, but in reality, it’s just an optical illusion.
Sounds like an incredibly cost-effective optical illusion!
Nintendo really seems to dislike dithering their intermediate buffers for some reason. Their first party titles often have quite visible banding artifacts. Dithering is easy and cheap and solves it completely.
Don’t disagree with the findings wrt MKW specifically, but PSA that, in general, HDR on the Switch 2 can be substantially improved by enabling HGIG tonemapping on TVs which support it, then going through the HDR calibration steps again. HDTVTest covered it here: https://youtu.be/X84e14oe6gs?si=bh1U7OHxGlzzJO8w
It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz, color was new and being done poorly. Now Oz is nostalgic so it gets a pass because of its uniqueness, but new films that look like that would be a little absurd.
I like some of the choices on Mario Kart World with HDR, but a lot of it just needs to be toned down so the things which do blow out the colors are impressive but also fit instead of just everything being turned up to 11.
Nintendo has never competed on graphics. They compete on having the most fun, accessible, entertaining games as possible. And say what you will about their business practices, they’ve probably done a better job of that than any other gaming company in history. As more devs bundle ever higher quality graphics with ever higher in-app purchases and pay to win schemes, Mario remains…Mario.
I seriously doubt many Switch users would bail on the system because of “fake” HDR. They probably don’t care about HDR at all. As long as Mario remains Mario, they’re happy.
Nintendo has ABSOLUTELY competed on graphics. The NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube were graphical powerhouses upon release, at or near the top of their generations in graphical performance. It was only with the Wii, when they chose to iterate on the Gamecube design rather than pair a powerful multicore processor with a powerful shader-capable CPU like the PS3 and Xbox 360 did, that Nintendo started going all "but muh lateral thinking with withered technology" and claimed they never intended to compete in that space.
I'm a Nintendo purchaser. I absolutely care about HDR. Given they specifically advertised HDR, I suspect they expect me to care, otherwise why make noise about it?
I don't think it's fair to say they _never_ competed on graphics. The Super Nintendo was comparable and surpassed the Genesis in some graphics areas. The Nintendo 64 was a 3D monster compared to other consoles at the time. On paper, the GameCube out performs the PS2. It wasn't more powerful than the Xbox, but not a generation behind.
It wasn't until the Wii that Nintendo stepped out of the hardware race. Somehow this has been retconned into Nintendo never focusing on hardware.
If they thought it would sell more systems, they'd compete. The Switch 2 is evidence that it doesn't matter.
I’m glad to see this getting attention in the last day or two. HDRVTest did a video too.
I’m having a blast with MarioKart but the track usually looks washed out. Some of the UI and other things have great color on them but most of the picture just looks like the saturation was turned down a bit.
Very disappointing as a Mario game and its colorful aesthetic is the kind of thing that should be able to look great in HDR.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|9 months ago|reply
When you drive towards the sun, what is more fun? A realistic HDR brightness that blinds you, or a „wrong“ brightness level that helps the background stay in the background without interrupting your flow? Similarly, should eye candy like little sparks grab your attention by being the brightest object on screen? I’d say no.
The hardware can handle full HDR and more brightness, but one could argue that the game is more fun with incorrect brightness scaling…
[+] [-] MBCook|9 months ago|reply
The game should look like a normal Mario game at a minimum. It should use its additional color palette available in HDR to look better, and the additional brightness to make make effects pop as you describe.
The problem is that’s not what it’s doing. Some things pop better, but it’s not because they’re using extra colors. It may be a little brightness, but mostly it’s that everything else just got toned down so it looks kinda washed out.
If they did nothing but use the expanded color palette and did not use the additional brightness at all I would be a lot happier than with what we have right now.
I haven’t turned it back to SDR mode but I’m legitimately considering it. Because I suspect the game looks better that way.
[+] [-] _carbyau_|9 months ago|reply
It's like a keyword bingo for usually poor implementations. I grant that maybe the implementation is good for any specific game you care to mention - but history has shaped my habits.
[+] [-] animal531|9 months ago|reply
Other games like Senua did actually manage to pull off an amazing sun/scene though. Because its slower they can use it to accentuate, for example you walk around a corner and go from the darkness into full on sunlight which is blinding, but then falls off so as to become bearable.
[+] [-] mcdeltat|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] sim7c00|9 months ago|reply
the monitor can display what it can display. format of transfer doesn't change hardware capabilities, just how you express what u want towards them
[+] [-] jldugger|9 months ago|reply
Somehow I doubt this survey is representative of the typical Mario Kart player. And to those for whom it is a concern, I don't think SDR is high on the list relative to framerate, pop-in, and general "see where I'm going and need to go next" usability.
[+] [-] Loughla|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] aranelsurion|9 months ago|reply
You need a real HDR display (800 nits+), FALD or OLED for contrast, some calibration, and software that uses it well (really hit and miss at least on Windows).
Once all the stars align, the experience is amazing. Doom Eternal has one of the best HDR implementations on PC, and I suggest trying it once on a good display before writing HDR off as a gimmick.
There’s something about how taillights of a car in a dark street in Cyberpunk look, and that just can’t be replicated on an SDR display afaict.
Then you have some games where it’s implemented terribly and it looks washed out and worse than SDR. Some people go through the pain and mod them to look right, or you just disable HDR with those.
I’d vouch for proper HDR any day, that being said I wouldn’t expect it to improve Mario Kart much even with a proper implementation. The art style of the game itself is super bright for that cheery mood, and no consumer display will be able to show 1000nits with 99% of the frame at full brightness. It’ll likely look almost the same as SDR.
[+] [-] tokinonagare|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] qingcharles|9 months ago|reply
One reason for keeping Apple hardware around is a decent display test bench. I do the best I can with image work, but once it leaves your hands it's a total lottery.
[+] [-] cco|9 months ago|reply
So far this is my experience of HDR.
[+] [-] freetime2|9 months ago|reply
There are about a thousand other things in any given game that matter more to me than HDR tone mapping, and I'm happy for developers to focus on those things. The one exception might be a game where you spend a lot of time in the dark - like Resident Evil or Luigi's mansion.
Looking at his example video where he compares Godfall Ultimate footage to Mario Kart - I quite dislike the HDR in Godfall Ultimate. Certain elements like health bars, red crystals, and sparks are emphasized way too much, to the detraction of character and environment design. I find Mario Kart to be much more tasteful. That's not to say that Mario Kart World couldn't be better looking in HDR, but the author doesn't really do a compelling job showing how. In the side-by-side examples with "real" HDR, I prefer the game as-is.
[+] [-] braiamp|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|9 months ago|reply
It’s a little better than I had it set. But it’s still a problem. As this article shows, it just wasn’t designed right.
[+] [-] mortenjorck|9 months ago|reply
Perhaps the worst offender I've ever seen was the Mafia remake by Hangar 17, which loads every time with a sequence of studio logos with white backgrounds that cut from black. The RGB(255,255,255) backgrounds get stretched to maximum HDR nits, and the jump from RGB(0,0,0) (especially on an OLED) is absolutely eye-searing.
I literally had to close my eyes whenever I'd load the game.
[+] [-] xnx|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] theshackleford|9 months ago|reply
Why would it be any more impactful on OLED than any given FALD display capable of putting out >1000 nits sustained?
[+] [-] hombre_fatal|9 months ago|reply
Why are people able to craft an image/video that bypasses my screen brightness and color shift settings?
If I wanted to see the media in full fidelity, I wouldn't have my screen dimmed with nightshift turned on in my dark bedroom.
It's not OP's fault. My mind is just blown every time I see this behavior.
[+] [-] twoodfin|9 months ago|reply
I can’t articulate why it bothers me. Except maybe the implied assumption that the author’s real voice & style benefit more than they are harmed from being submerged in what is ultimately mathematically derived mush.
[+] [-] isoprophlex|9 months ago|reply
If you consider your writing bad enough to warrant a LLM fluffing pass, I consider it no better than the 99% of worse than mediocre, lazy, attention grabbing bullshit without real intellectual quality that pollutes the internet.
[+] [-] jlarcombe|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] numpad0|9 months ago|reply
"Mainstream" or "majority" in context of Nintendo is a $20-40k/yr white collar household with 2 kids. The REAL mainstream. Some would have real ashtrays on a dining table. ~None of them had bought any of TVs over 42" with 4K resolution and HDR support in past 10 years.
Though, I do wonder how globally mainstream is such a household buying Nintendo hardware. Admittedly it could be somewhat of a local phenomenon.
[+] [-] thinkingtoilet|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] anon7000|9 months ago|reply
TVs are a very cost effective home entertainment device, and 4k HDR is the default these days.
[+] [-] epcoa|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] msk-lywenn|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] tempaway43563|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mcdeltat|9 months ago|reply
What surprised me is why a new game from a big studio, designed to support "HDR", would not be designed all in linear space to begin with. Because then doing tone mapping correctly for different display technologies becomes easy. However my knowledge is mostly from the photography world so perhaps someone with game knowledge can weigh in.
[+] [-] danbolt|9 months ago|reply
Sounds like an incredibly cost-effective optical illusion!
[+] [-] user____name|9 months ago|reply
Here's some good examples: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/MslGR8
[+] [-] darkteflon|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] colechristensen|9 months ago|reply
I like some of the choices on Mario Kart World with HDR, but a lot of it just needs to be toned down so the things which do blow out the colors are impressive but also fit instead of just everything being turned up to 11.
[+] [-] rohansood15|9 months ago|reply
My first reaction when I saw the launch/gameplay video was why does this look so washed out? Now I kinda know why - thank you!
[+] [-] WhereIsTheTruth|9 months ago|reply
You want low latency and long battery life, HDR has an impact on the two
Have people forgotten what a handheld is supposed to be? portable device on a battery
[+] [-] whatevaa|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Firehawke|9 months ago|reply
Come ON.
[+] [-] ge96|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] jm20|9 months ago|reply
I seriously doubt many Switch users would bail on the system because of “fake” HDR. They probably don’t care about HDR at all. As long as Mario remains Mario, they’re happy.
[+] [-] Retr0id|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] bitwize|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] theshackleford|9 months ago|reply
[+] [-] jonhohle|9 months ago|reply
It wasn't until the Wii that Nintendo stepped out of the hardware race. Somehow this has been retconned into Nintendo never focusing on hardware.
If they thought it would sell more systems, they'd compete. The Switch 2 is evidence that it doesn't matter.
[+] [-] MBCook|9 months ago|reply
If the system was SDR only I would be disappointed but fine.
But they made it HDR. They made a big deal about it. And it doesn’t work well. It’s impossible to calibrate and ends up just looking washed out.
It’s broken.
And I don’t appreciate the insinuation that Nintendo fans will buy any piece of junk they put out. See: Wii U.
[+] [-] MBCook|9 months ago|reply
I’m having a blast with MarioKart but the track usually looks washed out. Some of the UI and other things have great color on them but most of the picture just looks like the saturation was turned down a bit.
Very disappointing as a Mario game and its colorful aesthetic is the kind of thing that should be able to look great in HDR.