This feels very right. The problem is there are few entities invested enough in Linux as a consumer platform, that have the motivation to push things forward. To make the decisions on what their "Reference" system is.
Ubuntu, for all their faults, were the first to make Linux really easy to install and made it "just work." That counts for a lot. Since then, their output has been disappointing.
Part of the problem, is that "Linux/Unix culture" is very averse to coordination. When someone does try to establish a common baseline, there is inevitable pushback. The classic example is systemd, which fills a desperately needed hole in the Linux ecosystem, but is to this day criticized for being antithetical to the ethos of, I guess, gluing together an operating system with chewing gum and bits of string. The fact is that many users would rather have a pile of software that can be hand-assembled into an OS, instead of an actual cohesive, consistent platform.
So I can't blame people too much for not trying to establish standards. If OSS had created LSP, there would be 20 different incompatible variations, and they would insist "We like it this way."
There is another factor at play: different users value different things. For example, there are some people who don't like systemd, not because they are enamored with classic startup scripts, but because they take issue with systemd's design. It's not that they dislike coherent, consistent platforms: they just take disagreement with the design decisions of that particular platform. For example, I like the classic Mac OS and Jobs-era Mac OS X, but I don't like GNOME. All of these are coherent platforms, but they have different philosophies.
The difference between open source software versus proprietary software is that if users don't like the changes made to proprietary software, there choices are limited to the following:
1. Dealing with the changes even though they don't like it.
2. Sticking to an older version of the software before the changes took place (which can be difficult due to needing to deal with a changing environment and thus is only delaying the inevitable).
3. Switching to an alternative product, if available.
4. Writing an alternative product (which can be a massive undertaking).
Open source software provides additional options:
5. Fork the older version of the software. If enough people maintain this fork, then this becomes a viable alternative to the changed software.
6. Use the new version of the software, but modify it to one's liking.
This is the blessing and the curse of open source software; we have the power to make our own environments, but some software is quite labor-intensive to write, and we need to rely on other people's libraries, systems, and tools to avoid reinventing wheels, but sometimes those dependencies change in ways that we disagree with.
I think the best way to mitigate this is making software easier to develop and more modular, though inevitably there are always going to be disagreements when using dependencies that we don't directly control.
Indeed, "good" doesn't matter if the OS is a pain to use.
The Driver support issues are essentially a theological war between FOSS ideals, and mystery OEM binaries.
Most of the linux kernel code is still the driver modules, and board support packages.
The desktop options have always been a mess of forks and bodged applets to make it useful.
Ubuntu balances the purity of Debian with practical user experience (we could all write a book about UEFI shenanigans.) RedHat focuses more on hardened server use-cases.
Is it worse than Win11 ? depends what you are doing, and what people consider is the low bar for messing with users. =3
Valve doesn't seem interested in doing much on the desktop, they seem to have constrained themselves (probably wisely) to working on areas directly related to their business and products.
Google is the closest with Android. They were even able to get Adobe to port photoshop which other Linux operating systems have failed to have happen.
Despite Android's success the rest of the consumer Linux distributions chose to ignore it and continue on with what they were already doing. Trying to have them coordinate around what is succeeding is seemingly impossible.
Android is the most Pervasive yes, but I would consider it too focused on a specific type of platform, and one that is becoming more and more closed off.
ChromeOS might be a better example, but much like android, it is also very closed off from the rest of the ecosystem.
Android doesn't succeed at what free software developers (or users) care about. The present-day reality of Android is a huge, depressing disappointment to anyone who gives a shit about software freedom.
It's a TiVo-ized spyware delivery platform, absolute riddled with (often non-removeable, often installed by entities other than the user) badware.
Android is an abject, dismal failure when it comes to very basic things like empowering users.
> Despite Android's success the rest of the consumer Linux distributions chose to ignore it and continue on with what they were already doing. Trying to have them coordinate around what is succeeding is seemingly impossible.
I'm not sure I understand you here. What do you think other Linux distros should have done?
hackyhacky|8 months ago
Part of the problem, is that "Linux/Unix culture" is very averse to coordination. When someone does try to establish a common baseline, there is inevitable pushback. The classic example is systemd, which fills a desperately needed hole in the Linux ecosystem, but is to this day criticized for being antithetical to the ethos of, I guess, gluing together an operating system with chewing gum and bits of string. The fact is that many users would rather have a pile of software that can be hand-assembled into an OS, instead of an actual cohesive, consistent platform.
So I can't blame people too much for not trying to establish standards. If OSS had created LSP, there would be 20 different incompatible variations, and they would insist "We like it this way."
EDIT: averse, not adverse
linguae|8 months ago
The difference between open source software versus proprietary software is that if users don't like the changes made to proprietary software, there choices are limited to the following:
1. Dealing with the changes even though they don't like it.
2. Sticking to an older version of the software before the changes took place (which can be difficult due to needing to deal with a changing environment and thus is only delaying the inevitable).
3. Switching to an alternative product, if available.
4. Writing an alternative product (which can be a massive undertaking).
Open source software provides additional options:
5. Fork the older version of the software. If enough people maintain this fork, then this becomes a viable alternative to the changed software.
6. Use the new version of the software, but modify it to one's liking.
This is the blessing and the curse of open source software; we have the power to make our own environments, but some software is quite labor-intensive to write, and we need to rely on other people's libraries, systems, and tools to avoid reinventing wheels, but sometimes those dependencies change in ways that we disagree with.
I think the best way to mitigate this is making software easier to develop and more modular, though inevitably there are always going to be disagreements when using dependencies that we don't directly control.
Joel_Mckay|8 months ago
The Driver support issues are essentially a theological war between FOSS ideals, and mystery OEM binaries.
Most of the linux kernel code is still the driver modules, and board support packages.
The desktop options have always been a mess of forks and bodged applets to make it useful.
Ubuntu balances the purity of Debian with practical user experience (we could all write a book about UEFI shenanigans.) RedHat focuses more on hardened server use-cases.
Is it worse than Win11 ? depends what you are doing, and what people consider is the low bar for messing with users. =3
clipsy|8 months ago
If the hole is desperately needed, why would you want to fill it?
keyringlight|8 months ago
charcircuit|8 months ago
Despite Android's success the rest of the consumer Linux distributions chose to ignore it and continue on with what they were already doing. Trying to have them coordinate around what is succeeding is seemingly impossible.
TechPlasma|8 months ago
pxc|8 months ago
It's a TiVo-ized spyware delivery platform, absolute riddled with (often non-removeable, often installed by entities other than the user) badware.
Android is an abject, dismal failure when it comes to very basic things like empowering users.
hackyhacky|8 months ago
I'm not sure I understand you here. What do you think other Linux distros should have done?
unknown|8 months ago
[deleted]