The Economist's Scam Inc podcast (mentioned elsewhere in this discussion too) has fascinating (and very troubling) insights into this.
I have sons heading to college this and next year and I have tried to prepare them for the world of scamming that exists out there. I sure hope I've done enough.
Just a few minutes ago I had a scam text that pig butchering begins. I typically delete them immediately but this time just to see what happens I wrote back in several languages aggressively counter-offering to teach them how to buy crypto. I got a puzzled response, then a picture of a waifish asian woman on restaraunt balcony, I think it's AI generated, but it doesn't matter, and then after me clearly not biting a "Fuck you". I wrote "I feel for you doing pig butchering, but its not going to work here", translated it to Chinese and sent that, and got back another "Fuck you", this time in Chinese. ... Now that I typed this out, I realize this was kind of pointless exchange
Your kids are far more likely to fall for dumb shit their friends talk them into than random texts.
They will be, or already have been, exposed to people telling them that crypto/leveraged day trading/AI/whatever is the shortcut to wealth. That will likely be their peers, or the people (podcasters) that have high status amongst their peers, and is a much more insidious problem. That's what will get them into trouble.
This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams.
The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed physically, chemically, and electrically to such a degree that it is difficult for me to even believe that it exists.
I am not even particularly financially literate. In college. I barely scraped by my statistics class, took no finance or business classes, and the only formal financial literacy education I have ever received was a single one hour course given to me by the US Army in late 2001 when they announced the TSP (401k for military) was coming where the only takeaways were “compounding interest is magic” and “put your money into a retirement account and don’t look at it until you’re a decade out from retirement”.
To me, believing an unsolicited stranger who is offering you an investment opportunity like what pig butchering scams are will make you rich is the same exact thing as walking out of a rundown gas station that also sells nunchucks, bongs, and ninja throwing stars with a little baggie of pills that have a tiger on the label thinking that they’ll turn you a super sex machine.
Is it desperation?
Profound financial illiteracy that exceeds mine by several orders of magnitude?
I am happy to share my mom's story, as tragic as it is.
My stepfather passed away just before Covid. After he passed away, my mom was isolated and started spending time on Match.com.
Eventually she found her match - a total scamming operation.
She proceeded to liquidate my deceased step father's retirement savings and also took out high interest loans to send her match money.
She wired the scammer well over $100k. The high interest loans totally ruined her life.
They were using a US bank. She was using Wells Fargo.
She is/was:
1. Desperate for attention
2. Prone to deception
3. Tech illiterate - some of the photos the scammer sent her were so obviously photoshopped
Happy to share more if it's helpful. It's been one of the most difficult things to deal with throughout my life, but I hope that our story can be helpful to someone else.
I do think social desperation is real and does a number on some people. There are people out there in the world who will enter fairy tale love story mode if the right sequence of words reaches them as if they were some kind of self destructive sleeper agent.
A lot of these people lived decent rational lives and should know better. They are college educated and had good careers and large retirement accounts and made all the right financial decisions to lead a good life. But then some stranger pretends to misdial your number and reads a script about how they feel like they really connected with you. You get 'activated' and enter an irrational universe where you can be convinced to send your money away and keep the relationship a secret from everyone you know and lie to your bank about why you are withdrawing anything and who knows what else.
I like to think I am immune to this but who knows what I will be in 30 years. I make a living by being distrusting (security) and got activated as a good boglehead at a really young age. Or maybe the stupid-juice will suffuse my brain at age 70 and I'll give it all away to a cute AI voice that robodials me after decades of not answering any call that isn't already in my contacts, and everybody who knows me will be mystified as to why, including myself.
They butter you up for a long while before they get to the offer - that's the distinction from normal scams. They act as a friend and confidant for weeks, maybe flirt, and when the pig is "raised" they move to the slaughtering process
so it's not a stranger, it's "your close online friend says they have a good retirement fund and it might do better than yours, would you try it out?"
I chatted a bit to one of them trying to get money from me and it was quite subtle. Blah blah I make money in crypto why don't you try I'll show you what to do and then instead of going to say mexc which is a real exchange it would be to mexx or some such which is a clone they've made. It would actually semi function and show profits encouraging the punter to stake more not realizing it was a fake exchange.
I didn't send money to the mexx.com site but I did send some to a site called ftx.com which pulled a more subtle scam. Got that refunded eventually.
The trick is that they don't feel like an unsolicited stranger. The stories you read about these scams summarize away weeks or months of talking, flirting, maybe falling in love a little bit, until they're not a stranger but your very cute and very rich friend.
What does work is an absolute, ironclad rule that I do not trust and am not friends with anyone I meet online until we've met multiple times in person. But there's a lot of lonely people out there who don't find that rule so easy.
I know two people in my network who this happened to. One is the elderly father of a friend who has dementia who was told that his friend in Asia had a business opportunity (they actually collected this money in person in San Jose). The other is a young woman whose mother is a member of the CCP (as many in China are) and who was told that she had to do this or her mother would face consequences there.
I found both situations unbelievable but I can see how. Two situations which turned out legitimate were:
* I was in a bad accident and there was a settlement which was intended to go to the insurer but went to me instead. The subrogation claim eventually made it to me and I was informed via phone. I told them to send the docs etc. and contacted the insurer to ensure this was their guys. It was and I paid (perhaps more than I should have but not all that I received)
* About half the time I send a big wire on Chase, they call me to confirm details and this and that. I always say "I shouldn't really be doing this, right? Can you tell me how I can call you?" and they tell me to go on the site and find the number etc. etc.
So it seems there are many cases where the fake seeming is legit. These two were drowned in a large number of other scam phone calls, admittedly, and I must confess that hearing an Indian accent with a Western name now sets off my alarm bells.
The Economist has an interesting podcast about this phenomenon called Scam Inc. You need to be a subscriber to hear more than the first few eps, but they were interesting and went into this situation in detail. Worth a listen to understand this crime and its nuance a little better.
It is also incomprehensible to most victims, before and even after it happens to them. Many people never report the crime because they're so embarrassed and cannot explain their own behavior. If you talk to them about it they usually won't defend their decisions, they'll say something like "I know it doesn't make sense, I don't understand why I did it and I see now that the scam is blindingly obvious, I don't know what happened".
Desperation and loneliness are often a part of it, and these scams happen over a period of months, so at the critical moment it doesn't feel (emphasis on "feel") like you're talking to a stranger at all. These criminal organizations have done this thousands and thousands of times, they know how to emotionally manipulate someone away from thinking objectively about the situation. They just have to catch someone at a vulnerable moment and get them talking for a day or two, and already they aren't a stranger anymore, they're "a guy I've been talking to", and they just build up the relationship for weeks or months before they even bring up money or investing.
This is also a good blog post about how even someone extremely knowledgeable about technology and fraud can be easily scammed if you just catch them at the right time: https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/05/cyber-dunning-kruger/. It can happen to you too, you are not immune just because these victims seem like morons to you. They seem like morons to themselves too, but it still happened.
Maybe it's trusting a personal connection and word of mouth over mainstream information because of some vague anti-establishment feelings? I also don't know really. I mean, even a small bank CEO fell for one https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/cryptocurrenc...
I've only heard of "pig butchering" scams in the context of people who pose as family/friends of people on social media whom they target with urgent requests for money, e.g.:
> I've been arrested/kidnapped/lost my wallet
the scammers create a flase sense of urgency and exploit the victim's concern for their loved one's well-being.
There is a kind of threshold in most humans where we assume we are dealing with someone who "feels like" they are (real and) in our circle of contacts. Once this threshold is passed, critical thinking as to who this person is/what their motivation is moves to a much lower priority.
> This is an earnest request. Please help me understand the mindset of people who fall for pig butchering scams.
Same logic behind AI girlfriends or in general losing yourself to online life. It's a lack meeting your needs offline and scammers/technology willing to fill those needs online.
US banks are too busy delaying their customers’ ach transfers for days so they can profit from the float to actually solve customer problems and take responsibility for the many societal benefits they enjoy.
The banks have some responsibility here, and the article brings this up. The banks' response involved saying they can't keep up with volume and shifts blame to social media for some reason.
You gotta understand, there's the law, then there's enforcement of laws, then there's punishments for getting caught breaking the law. The banks have done the math. Maybe they've even lobbied to have the penalties/enforcers reduced. It doesn't pay for them to follow this law strictly, so they don't. You'll find this across the legal system. It comes down hard on the poor and marginalized, but gives a lot of grace to the rich, even if at our expense.
> In October, the U.K. began requiring banks to reimburse scam victims up to £85,000, or about $116,000, per claim when they make a fraudulent payment on behalf of their customers, even if the customers authorized the transfer.
How does the bank verify the scammer and the "victim" aren't colluding?
I.e. Mal opens a bank account with $100k, it gets cleaned out when he's "scammed" by Eve, then Mal is reimbursed $100k. Mal & Eve collectively start with $100k, and end up with $200k.
(This is why I put "victim" in quotes: In this scenario, Eve and Mal are co-conspirators trying to defraud the scam reimbursement system.)
They’re pretty on-the-ball with fraud. People are commonly scammed into being a money mule (basically being sent money and then being asked to send it on to another account, with the promise of payment) and they get locked out.
They’re not going to just take your word at being scammed, either, and the police are going to be involved for it to even get off the ground.
To add to that - there are several barriers to taking out large amounts of cash. You can’t just walk into a bank and pull out £10k, no questions asked, because of the likelihood of it being part of a scam.
Yeah, but the scammer could also just walk into the bank and pass the teller a note telling them to hand over all the money in the drawer. They'd do it! But it would be theft and the scammer would be arrested, just like if they did what you're suggesting.
Like the real scams, this does require that Mal be overseas in some place where they can't easily be traced. And of course if the money ever comes back to Eve's bank account, someone might notice. So this requires quite a complicated setup which is hard to achieve between people in different countries because .. one might scam the other.
Even if the customer authorized the transaction? So now all the customers have to pay higher fees to cover for idiots getting scammed. Is the Bank of England going to start refunding people who get scammed out of cash under the mattress?
The reimbursing thing is quite new and at least one of the parties has to be UK resident to get UK compensation. That would leave the UK resident at risk of jail. Usually the scammers like to be somewhere well offshore.
Probably having AI increases the efficiency of this operation substantially, since it is heavily personalized and requires a lot of long term, non-paying effort on the part of the scammer . Either from directly replying to messages, or from automatically developing dossiers from victims social media profiles so you know what topics get them going.
AMLKYC always seemed obviously backward or ridiculous to me. The fact that banks are essentially tasked with enforcing laws is... a crutch to say the least.
Analogies are by definition imperfect but:
1. why not point the finger at ATT and Verizon for allowing phone calls and IP packets that facilitated crime?
2. toll road owners, car/truck manufacturers, UPS, USPS, should they be tasked with "knowing" more about their customers?
All this just ends up blaming the victim and doesn't really fix the problem while having massive collateral damage like folks having their bank accounts closed for no good reason and causing real losses to actual businesses.
What's the solution? I'm not sure. Perhaps it begins with holding countries more to account for the actions of their resident criminals.
The government gives plenty of help to banks. I don't think their role here is unreasonable. The solution is to tighten/enforce regulations around bank accounts & make the penalties mean something. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you see something, say something. If you think telecoms are doing something wrong, write to the FCC. Bring up SIM hijacking for me. If you think toll road owners are doing something wrong, bring it up with them and maybe the FHWA.
This is what happens when a high trust society suddenly comes into contact with a low trust society. The systems that worked fine can't keep up with the scale of fraud.
I've said it before here, I'll say it again: it is high time that our governments follow the money and the scammers. Sanction the source countries of these scams to hell and beyond until they clean up their act and pray in front of us on their knees for forgiveness. And yes, I'd like particularly Narendra Modi to kneel - it's hard to wish anything else after watching more than two Scammer Payback videos. Obviously Indian police is aware of what's going on, he's posted more than enough proof, but mysteriously the callcenters get warned in time and vanish.
The US alone loses 158 billion $ each year [1] to scams, the global toll is allegedly around 1 trillion $ [2]. That's fucking insane, this has to stop.
It's strange how some of these countries don't take action on their own behalf, if only to preserve their international reputation and the reputation of their citizens abroad. India is a great example. Do Indians not realize how much damage they've done to their reputation by allowing scam call centers to flourish? Are they not aware of
> DO NOT REDEEM
Imagine Americans living in small towns with few to no Indians, and their only association with Indian accents is someone trying to steal their (or their parents' or granparents') money.
EDIT: seatac76, your reply got shadowed; perhaps your entire account. Not sure why.
Every dollar in scam damages verified by the FBI is one fewer work visa for anyone from that country. India is now in a hole of 1 billion (or 10,000 lakhs) work visas, and the latter are more valuable than scams.
Ironically or not but I'd imagine Trump would be appropriate person to give a proper dressing down to Modi via Truth Social if not through official channels.
As in past, the future US dispensation would be far more more decent to disturb peacock like dancing Modi.
> And yes, I'd like particularly Narendra Modi to kneel
Umm you are targeting the wrong person here. Majority of the scam call centers come from West Bengal, particularly Kolkata. Which is headed by Chief Minister Mamta Banerjee.
India has a federal structure, with cooperation between Center and States. Similar to USA. Modi just can't invade Kolkata using Indian Armed Forces and dismantle the operations without facing significant legal challenges in the Supreme Court of India.
West Bengal is a islamo-commie state. Nearly impossible to flip the state electorally for BJP to win (Narendra Modi heads BJP). The state is a stronghold of Mamta Banerjee who heads the TMC party. She came to power after nearly 4 decades of Communist rule.
The US GDP is more than 27 trillion. If 158 billion is being lost. That's about .6% of the GDP. So, my question is, why does this have to stop? If it is stopped the benefits to the global population seems trivial. I'm sure at the individual level it is devastating. Good luck getting the national government to care about such a small percent.
danielodievich|8 months ago
I have sons heading to college this and next year and I have tried to prepare them for the world of scamming that exists out there. I sure hope I've done enough.
Just a few minutes ago I had a scam text that pig butchering begins. I typically delete them immediately but this time just to see what happens I wrote back in several languages aggressively counter-offering to teach them how to buy crypto. I got a puzzled response, then a picture of a waifish asian woman on restaraunt balcony, I think it's AI generated, but it doesn't matter, and then after me clearly not biting a "Fuck you". I wrote "I feel for you doing pig butchering, but its not going to work here", translated it to Chinese and sent that, and got back another "Fuck you", this time in Chinese. ... Now that I typed this out, I realize this was kind of pointless exchange
dghlsakjg|8 months ago
They will be, or already have been, exposed to people telling them that crypto/leveraged day trading/AI/whatever is the shortcut to wealth. That will likely be their peers, or the people (podcasters) that have high status amongst their peers, and is a much more insidious problem. That's what will get them into trouble.
alyandon|8 months ago
os2warpman|8 months ago
The thought of giving money to a stranger who I met via a dating app or other social media platform who shifted the conversation to WeChat and asked me to wire money to a bank account is so incomprehensible to me that the mind of someone who would do that is entirely different to how mine is constructed physically, chemically, and electrically to such a degree that it is difficult for me to even believe that it exists.
I am not even particularly financially literate. In college. I barely scraped by my statistics class, took no finance or business classes, and the only formal financial literacy education I have ever received was a single one hour course given to me by the US Army in late 2001 when they announced the TSP (401k for military) was coming where the only takeaways were “compounding interest is magic” and “put your money into a retirement account and don’t look at it until you’re a decade out from retirement”.
To me, believing an unsolicited stranger who is offering you an investment opportunity like what pig butchering scams are will make you rich is the same exact thing as walking out of a rundown gas station that also sells nunchucks, bongs, and ninja throwing stars with a little baggie of pills that have a tiger on the label thinking that they’ll turn you a super sex machine.
Is it desperation?
Profound financial illiteracy that exceeds mine by several orders of magnitude?
bag_boy|8 months ago
My stepfather passed away just before Covid. After he passed away, my mom was isolated and started spending time on Match.com.
Eventually she found her match - a total scamming operation.
She proceeded to liquidate my deceased step father's retirement savings and also took out high interest loans to send her match money.
She wired the scammer well over $100k. The high interest loans totally ruined her life.
They were using a US bank. She was using Wells Fargo.
She is/was:
1. Desperate for attention 2. Prone to deception 3. Tech illiterate - some of the photos the scammer sent her were so obviously photoshopped
Happy to share more if it's helpful. It's been one of the most difficult things to deal with throughout my life, but I hope that our story can be helpful to someone else.
jabroni_salad|8 months ago
A lot of these people lived decent rational lives and should know better. They are college educated and had good careers and large retirement accounts and made all the right financial decisions to lead a good life. But then some stranger pretends to misdial your number and reads a script about how they feel like they really connected with you. You get 'activated' and enter an irrational universe where you can be convinced to send your money away and keep the relationship a secret from everyone you know and lie to your bank about why you are withdrawing anything and who knows what else.
I like to think I am immune to this but who knows what I will be in 30 years. I make a living by being distrusting (security) and got activated as a good boglehead at a really young age. Or maybe the stupid-juice will suffuse my brain at age 70 and I'll give it all away to a cute AI voice that robodials me after decades of not answering any call that isn't already in my contacts, and everybody who knows me will be mystified as to why, including myself.
nemomarx|8 months ago
so it's not a stranger, it's "your close online friend says they have a good retirement fund and it might do better than yours, would you try it out?"
tim333|8 months ago
I didn't send money to the mexx.com site but I did send some to a site called ftx.com which pulled a more subtle scam. Got that refunded eventually.
SpicyLemonZest|8 months ago
What does work is an absolute, ironclad rule that I do not trust and am not friends with anyone I meet online until we've met multiple times in person. But there's a lot of lonely people out there who don't find that rule so easy.
renewiltord|8 months ago
I found both situations unbelievable but I can see how. Two situations which turned out legitimate were:
* I was in a bad accident and there was a settlement which was intended to go to the insurer but went to me instead. The subrogation claim eventually made it to me and I was informed via phone. I told them to send the docs etc. and contacted the insurer to ensure this was their guys. It was and I paid (perhaps more than I should have but not all that I received)
* About half the time I send a big wire on Chase, they call me to confirm details and this and that. I always say "I shouldn't really be doing this, right? Can you tell me how I can call you?" and they tell me to go on the site and find the number etc. etc.
So it seems there are many cases where the fake seeming is legit. These two were drowned in a large number of other scam phone calls, admittedly, and I must confess that hearing an Indian accent with a Western name now sets off my alarm bells.
schmookeeg|8 months ago
unknown|8 months ago
[deleted]
rikthevik|8 months ago
"All the lonely people, where do they all come from? All the lonely people, where do they all belong?"
There are a lot of sad people out there. And some of them are at the nunchucks, bongs, and throwing stars store.
lesuorac|8 months ago
The thought of telling somebody your real name to somebody online used to be considered a poor decision.
The bar has really moved for what people need for trust.
burkaman|8 months ago
Desperation and loneliness are often a part of it, and these scams happen over a period of months, so at the critical moment it doesn't feel (emphasis on "feel") like you're talking to a stranger at all. These criminal organizations have done this thousands and thousands of times, they know how to emotionally manipulate someone away from thinking objectively about the situation. They just have to catch someone at a vulnerable moment and get them talking for a day or two, and already they aren't a stranger anymore, they're "a guy I've been talking to", and they just build up the relationship for weeks or months before they even bring up money or investing.
This Economist podcast is pretty good if you want to understand more, even if you don't have a subscription the three free episodes are great: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc.
This is also a good blog post about how even someone extremely knowledgeable about technology and fraud can be easily scammed if you just catch them at the right time: https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/05/cyber-dunning-kruger/. It can happen to you too, you are not immune just because these victims seem like morons to you. They seem like morons to themselves too, but it still happened.
jowea|8 months ago
anonnon|8 months ago
> I've been arrested/kidnapped/lost my wallet
the scammers create a flase sense of urgency and exploit the victim's concern for their loved one's well-being.
QuantumGood|8 months ago
rightbyte|8 months ago
Of those you have met, who would be at risk of falling for such scams? I know about maybe two.
And the combination of being both susceptible and not chronic broke is quite rare. Both those I know about who I guess fall for this stuff are broke.
throwawayq3423|8 months ago
Same logic behind AI girlfriends or in general losing yourself to online life. It's a lack meeting your needs offline and scammers/technology willing to fill those needs online.
rectang|8 months ago
hedora|8 months ago
HNUltraCensored|8 months ago
[deleted]
bigbacaloa|8 months ago
[deleted]
bigbacaloa|8 months ago
[deleted]
supportengineer|8 months ago
unboxingelf|8 months ago
Criminals just use stolen identities (from breaches of KYC data).
coderatlarge|8 months ago
dfxm12|8 months ago
You gotta understand, there's the law, then there's enforcement of laws, then there's punishments for getting caught breaking the law. The banks have done the math. Maybe they've even lobbied to have the penalties/enforcers reduced. It doesn't pay for them to follow this law strictly, so they don't. You'll find this across the legal system. It comes down hard on the poor and marginalized, but gives a lot of grace to the rich, even if at our expense.
unknown|8 months ago
[deleted]
busterarm|8 months ago
Even one as big as NFCU. I've never looked back since switching.
csense|8 months ago
How does the bank verify the scammer and the "victim" aren't colluding?
I.e. Mal opens a bank account with $100k, it gets cleaned out when he's "scammed" by Eve, then Mal is reimbursed $100k. Mal & Eve collectively start with $100k, and end up with $200k.
(This is why I put "victim" in quotes: In this scenario, Eve and Mal are co-conspirators trying to defraud the scam reimbursement system.)
ljm|8 months ago
They’re not going to just take your word at being scammed, either, and the police are going to be involved for it to even get off the ground.
To add to that - there are several barriers to taking out large amounts of cash. You can’t just walk into a bank and pull out £10k, no questions asked, because of the likelihood of it being part of a scam.
rafram|8 months ago
pjc50|8 months ago
fallingknife|8 months ago
tim333|8 months ago
nikanj|8 months ago
tantalor|8 months ago
hombre_fatal|8 months ago
seatac76|8 months ago
IncreasePosts|8 months ago
djoldman|8 months ago
Analogies are by definition imperfect but:
1. why not point the finger at ATT and Verizon for allowing phone calls and IP packets that facilitated crime?
2. toll road owners, car/truck manufacturers, UPS, USPS, should they be tasked with "knowing" more about their customers?
All this just ends up blaming the victim and doesn't really fix the problem while having massive collateral damage like folks having their bank accounts closed for no good reason and causing real losses to actual businesses.
What's the solution? I'm not sure. Perhaps it begins with holding countries more to account for the actions of their resident criminals.
dfxm12|8 months ago
throwaway48476|8 months ago
unknown|8 months ago
[deleted]
mschuster91|8 months ago
The US alone loses 158 billion $ each year [1] to scams, the global toll is allegedly around 1 trillion $ [2]. That's fucking insane, this has to stop.
[1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ftc-states-scams-cost-us-cons...
[2] https://www.gasa.org/post/global-state-of-scams-report-2024-...
anonnon|8 months ago
> DO NOT REDEEM
Imagine Americans living in small towns with few to no Indians, and their only association with Indian accents is someone trying to steal their (or their parents' or granparents') money.
EDIT: seatac76, your reply got shadowed; perhaps your entire account. Not sure why.
coredog64|8 months ago
throwawayoldie|8 months ago
I suspect the reason they don't is many of them know that following the money will lead right to their own front doors.
commandlinefan|8 months ago
According to the article, this is originating in China - we're sanctioning them pretty hard as it is, and they don't seem to care that much.
throwaway48476|8 months ago
geodel|8 months ago
As in past, the future US dispensation would be far more more decent to disturb peacock like dancing Modi.
throwaway_434|8 months ago
Umm you are targeting the wrong person here. Majority of the scam call centers come from West Bengal, particularly Kolkata. Which is headed by Chief Minister Mamta Banerjee.
India has a federal structure, with cooperation between Center and States. Similar to USA. Modi just can't invade Kolkata using Indian Armed Forces and dismantle the operations without facing significant legal challenges in the Supreme Court of India.
West Bengal is a islamo-commie state. Nearly impossible to flip the state electorally for BJP to win (Narendra Modi heads BJP). The state is a stronghold of Mamta Banerjee who heads the TMC party. She came to power after nearly 4 decades of Communist rule.
SapporoChris|8 months ago
The US GDP is more than 27 trillion. If 158 billion is being lost. That's about .6% of the GDP. So, my question is, why does this have to stop? If it is stopped the benefits to the global population seems trivial. I'm sure at the individual level it is devastating. Good luck getting the national government to care about such a small percent.
tempodox|8 months ago
unknown|8 months ago
[deleted]
unknown|8 months ago
[deleted]
throwaway48476|8 months ago
jmclnx|8 months ago
Yet another reason to avoid cryptocurrency, until that is 100% fully regulated, I will always avoid it.
One of the biggest reason is every tom, dick or harry is creating their own cryptocurrency these days. Including the dummy in charge of the US :)
darth_avocado|8 months ago
bapak|8 months ago
People are asked to buy and send crypto, they're not the same people who know what crypto is.
alhusainhadadn|8 months ago
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neslondavid|8 months ago
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neslondavid|8 months ago
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thesources|8 months ago
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neslondavid|8 months ago
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skeezyboy|8 months ago
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