[tompark]

I'm glad you're trying to explain the difference.

I've been in too many conversations where this topic comes up, and it's very disheartening to me. Gamers insist there are plenty of great narrative games, and every example they give is basically a branching story with bunch of flags that gate which branches can be taken. If I give the Holodeck as a counter-example, well that's just too pie-in-the-sky.

These conversations remind me a lot of Paul Graham's Blub Paradox: "Blub is good enough for him, because he thinks in Blub." Current SotA narrative games are good enough for most gamers, because all they've played are branching story games.

[gyomu]

The complex emergent narratives people love in Dwarf Fortress or Caves of Qud aren’t branching stories though?

If the argument is “let’s build games that tell character stories as complex as Last of Us with the world building techniques of Dwarf Fortress”, it might be worth considering why 1) it wouldn’t be feasible and/or 2) it wouldn’t lead to a game that’s as fun/compelling as a more narratively linear counterpart.

The narrative in Last of Us is compelling because it’s tight and focused and authored by the authors to be told in a very specific way.

The “emergent narrative out of raw world simulation” argument sounds like filming thousands of hours of security camera footage and expecting Citizen Kane to come out of it.

I mean again, I would be pretty receptive to a “this game had the right idea, we should push it further” argument, but the “I’m a visionary game designer who hasn’t shipped a game that embodies my vision AND the thousands of other game designers are clueless, but everyone will see how clever I was in 3 centuries” argument rings pretty hollow.

For what it’s worth, Chris Crawford’s tool (http://storytron.com/) is a branching story editor, and one that seems much less powerful than what is used in the industry (eg articy).

[billmaya]

Crawford has no involvement with the Storytron 2 software at https://www.storytron.com/. It was developed by me based on some ideas Crawford outlined on his site and in his Discord group (https://discord.gg/Rc4dq7HwZz).

Crawford's latest software that he developed to illustrate his latest approach for interactive storytelling are called Slubber99 (https://www.erasmatazz.com/library/Slubberdegullion/Slubber9...) and Gullion99 (https://www.erasmatazz.com/library/Slubberdegullion/Gullion9...).

Storytron 1 & 2 history can be found at this link - https://www.ifwiki.org/Storytron

[blizdiddy]

You haven’t played dwarf fortress or caves of qud and it shows. Great example of armchair designers insisting they know better than all the gamers and game creators immersed in the art.