[neither_color]

I don't see what's so bad about wanting to avoid an area where there's police activity going on. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're doing anything wrong, it's as simple as not wanting to get hassled at a DUI checkpoint or get stuck in traffic because they need 8 squad cars taking up a lane to k-9 search someone. As a more tan law-abiding US citizen, the possibility of some agent asking me for papers and then asking probing questions to "prove myself" anywhere that's not an airport is enough for me to want a heads up not to be in area where that might happen.

[afavour]

There's barely any point examining the app on its merits.

The mere existence of the app shows resistance to the government's attempts at establishing something approaching a police state. They are against the app for that reason. They don't really care about what it does or does not do. It could be an app where you press a button and the phone says "boo ICE" and they'd still happily claim it endangers officers lives.

(the fact that they're also able to attack independent media at the same time just makes it all the more alluring target)

[wslh]

Genuine question: is sharing the location or distribution of information about police presence illegal? I assume this would be treated differently if it involved military positions, but I'm curious about how the law applies in this case.

Waze is another example of an app where users can share information about police presence or roadblocks, while useful to some, could also be seen as having negative implications depending on the context.

[zaptheimpaler]

They literally did detain travelers who have funny meme images of the VP on their phones.

[cmurf]

If the existence of the app is evidence of nascent police state, what does increasing the budget of ICE by 13x suggest?

[Whoppertime]

We saw the government establishing something approaching a police state under COVID

[zzzeek]

> It could be an app where you press a button and the phone says "boo ICE"

oh great, stealing my idea?

[marssaxman]

Navigation apps have long been reporting police activity along with other aspects of traffic you might want to avoid.

Interacting with cops will never make your day better, so it's only sensible to avoid them if you can.

[frontfor]

> Interacting with cops will never make your day better, so it's only sensible to avoid them if you can.

This is a very nice way to put it. In investing terms, the benefits are limited but the risks are severe. With enough interactions you’re more likely to have experienced the downside.

[datpuz]

Consider yourself lucky that you've never had to call the cops as a victim. People forget that cops also save lives.

[siliconc0w]

They've abducted US citizens, it's perfectly reasonable to want to avoid them.

[kstrauser]

You're so right. I'm not afraid of the cops, especially not ICE flunkies, but interactions with law enforcement has never made my day more convenient and pleasant. It's not that I'd hide anything from them, as much as for me it's a bureaucratic hassle I'd just as soon not have to deal with.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know, officially, how much a multi-generation born-in-America person is actually obligated to cooperate with or answer to ICE?

[hayst4ck]

> how much a multi-generation born-in-America person is actually obligated to cooperate with or answer to ICE?

This is the wrong question. The right question is "who will hold them accountable if they violate your rights or try to punish you for lack of obedience?"

[potato3732842]

>Out of curiosity, does anyone know, officially, how much a multi-generation born-in-America person is actually obligated to cooperate with or answer to ICE?

You don't have to say anything to them without a court order but obviously they're still cops so they can screw you if you make a jerk of yourself doing it.

[bbor]

Legally speaking, they need signed arrest warrants. Being "multi-generation" (aka "clearly white"?) doesn't factor into it -- all residents are owed this protection, AFAIK. In this way, they have much less power than local PD or Sheriffs.

Practically speaking, of course, there's news stories every week about them arresting citizens, even when they're saying stuff like "please, check my wallet, my ID is in there!". I haven't followed up, but I'd be shocked if any of these incidents resulted in any sort of reparations for the victim.

As a side note, I'd be way more afraid of "flunkies" than any other type of law enforcement. Getting arrested is bad, but getting shot by someone with terrible trigger discipline and no training is worse... At best, they're especially aggressive, masked cops with absolutely zero accountability.

[hayst4ck]

Citizenship comes from law. Enforcers and the judiciary choose which law to enact and how to enact them. If enforcers of the "law" are more loyal to the administration than the constitution, then the law and all it's implications, such as citizenship, are up to the arbitrary whims of our new king coronated by the supreme court.

That's the problem with not defending Rule of Law. If law is arbitrary and only serves the interests of one person and isn't grounded in some greater objective truth, then it doesn't matter what is officially allowed or not. If judges and enforcers are loyalists then they get to make the call whether your lack of cooperation is obstruction of justice or not. Who is going to punish them for violating your rights? Other ICE agents? The DOJ? You might not even be given standing to fight for your rights in court.

An ICE agent may choose not to believe you are a US citizen and call your documents fake, and put you in a concentration camp or deport you to El Salvador.

As with Kilmar we saw that ICE can act without due process, and due process is what determines your citizenship status.

Trump is also openly talking about revoking the citizenship of citizens.

It's worth a reading about de-naturalization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturalization#Human_rights

[SpicyLemonZest]

In many states you’re required to identify yourself, but cooperation with law enforcement is otherwise never required. My sense is that ICE generally still releases citizens swiftly, and if they don’t think you’re a citizen for some reason you’re not going to win an argument about it on the spot no matter how much you cooperate.

[ljf]

And I grew up believing that America was 'land of the free'.

I've never had to prove my ID to a police-person here in the UK - once or twice they've asked me who I was, but they didn't check the answer I gave them and no ID was shown. I never carry photo ID unless I'm flying, so I wouldn't have been able to prove who I was anyway.

[netsharc]

The UK has a complicated relationship with IDs anyway, they don't have a national ID, no one's mandated to have a passport, and a driving license is also optional (only if you want to drive). The US is almost like that except that not having a driving license is an oddity there.

[knubie]

Please don't believe everything crazy leftists say online.

[immibis]

The more the government has to tell you how free you are, the less free you are.

There are zero known exceptions to this principle.

[hartator]

> anywhere that's not an airport

Why are we accepting this even at airport?

Locking the doors of the cockpit made another 9/11 close to impossible.

[wvenable]

Murdering all the passengers made another 9/11 impossible -- nobody is going to sit quietly while their plane is hijacked anymore.

[jollyllama]

I'm not arguing against anything you've said, but this isn't as popular of a sentiment as you think it is. For example, people who post information about DUI checkpoints in local social media forums are typically pilloried in comments sections.

[mariodiana]

Unless I'm mistaken, I remember some years ago the Apple Store blocked a DUI Checkpoint app. Has that changed?

[nashashmi]

ICE has quota requirements to meet. And this makes it difficult for them to meet it. They don’t want to work so hard. It is a big problem.

[insane_dreamer]

In essence it's no different from users being able to report a speed check on Apple/Google Maps

[amy214]

Speaking as a resident of the United States who does not happen to possess paperwork related to my residency, I think this ICE stuff is terrible. I do want to stay here in the US, I do have needs that require welfare for myself and my children. Food, housing, medicine, these are human rights, we all deserve them it's as simple as that. I thought the US supported human rights so that I could stay here and raise a family on the taxpayer dime because someone threatened me one time in my home country. Sadly, that is not the case, for shame.

[mschuster91]

> As a more tan law-abiding US citizen, the possibility of some agent asking me for papers and then asking probing questions to "prove myself" anywhere that's not an airport is enough for me to want a heads up not to be in area where that might happen.

No matter if you are a law-abiding citizen, the cops have too many rights to annoy people. At least in Western nations, anyone should have the right to not answer the police or any other agent of the state about what one is doing or has done without repercussions. Always remember "three felonies a day"!

In practice, we all know that if you do not do what the cop wants (or, frankly, if you have the wrong skin color), the cop finds a way to make your life difficult - from submitting one to the litany of shit they can legally do (like a full roadworthiness check of your vehicle or, if near a border, a full inspection for contraband) down to stuff that should be outright illegal (like civil forfeiture) or is actually illegal (like a lot of the current actions of ICE).

[dzhiurgis]

> not wanting to get hassled at a DUI checkpoint

We don’t get this in NZ. Waze has removed this feature after threats. I don’t like cops either, but it is super fair and logical to me.

[account42]

Reporting traffic cameras/stops is illegal in many countries but not the US. That however does not mean that reporting police activity is automatically always legal there. Similar to how taking along a hitchhiker is legal but driving a getaway car for a crime is not.

[goopypoop]

> As a more tan law-abiding US citizen

At first I misread this and thought you must be a vigilante

[kstrauser]

You can hold both of those opinions simultaneously. They pair nicely.

[Jtsummers]

In the US, we're not ordinarily required to keep any sort of ID on our person. There are some exceptions, such as the mentioned airports, crossing federal borders (as in to Canada or Mexico), some federal facilities, maybe some state/local government facilities, and (state dependent I've learned) when operating a car. Otherwise, you're pretty much free to leave your home in nothing but shorts and maybe a shirt (public decency laws and all) and go almost anywhere without issue.

Real ID is irrelevant to this. The issue is that now they can demand that people prove their citizenship almost anywhere and anytime beyond the few places it was permitted before.

[Rebelgecko]

My understanding is that Real ID isn't considered proof that someone is legally in the US, because in some cases a non citizen can get one while they're here legally and then overstay their welcome.

And that's also ignoring the whole "papers please" of how allegedly Americans aren't required to carry ID if they're just walking around

[crote]

No, why would it?

I live in a country with the equivalent of a Real ID and a law requiring you to present it when asked. Officially they are supposed to have a good reason for it, but in practice they'll happily do it just because they can. And they'll continue "just asking questions" if they feel like it. You're not under arrest of course, but they are happy to waste a few hours of your time when you "refuse to cooperate".

After all, as a law-abiding citizen you don't have anything to hide, do you?

[alemanek]

If you truly believe that; then you are not paying attention

[account42]

Intent matters.

[bryanrasmussen]

I've considered making a similar app for Denmark's train and bus ticket checkers, but I expect it would get rule illegal and blocked.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20240529/what-happens-if-you-board-a...

[ericmay]

This is anti-social behavior and it leads to lawlessness and society sometimes having rather overbearing response to the increase (see ICE in the United States).

Paying for public services is a duty of the public. Otherwise you won’t have public services anymore. It’s morally equivalent to being a tax cheat, in my view.

[soderfoo]

I went as a biljettkontrollant (Swedish ticket inspector) for Halloween—thought it’d be funny as a Yank expat.

Entering a room, I could feel the anxiety as some people instinctively grabbed their phones to buy a ticket.