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The Two Towers MUD

156 points| astronads | 7 months ago |t2tmud.org

111 comments

order

scbrg|7 months ago

I owe my career in programming to a MUD. That's really where I learned to code (mainly by staring at and trying to debug tonnes of really bad code other clueless newbies like myself had written). That it turn, got me a spot as a sort of hang-around at a local ISP/consultancy shop whose staff intersected a lot with the people running the MUD. They eventually decided to hire me when a suitable contract showed up.

All in all, I'd say the MUD was a terrific place to learn to code. You could literally write a few lines of code, and see their effect immediately. "I want to code an orc." Inherit stdmonster, call a few API functions to set name and description, and BAM! - you've got an orc! And so on. Motivation never ran dry because - hey, I was adding features I wanted to a game I loved! Feedback (of varying quality, sure) was immediately available in the built in chat channel. Code was hot loaded/reloaded, so iteration cycle time was approximately zero. Emacs + angeftp (later replaced by tramp) to the host machine, you were literally editing the live code all the time (who needs pull requests when you have C-x C-s, eh?), so lots of instructive oops moments. It was amazing.

Have a whole bunch of friends with a similar story.

stavros|7 months ago

I'm the same, but from the other side. I learned to code clients/bots that would play the MUD. I had a fantastic fighting script, that basically fought optimally, one that used two characters at the same time to solve some complicated maze, and I even wrote a headless bot runner that was compatible with the files of the MUD client I used.

It was all great fun, and I also owe my extensive regex experience to it.

throwawaye3735|7 months ago

Same here , I got addicted to a mud called realms of despair , smaug codebase, a derivative of Dikumud, I then ended up helping run a pretty popular server on the same codebase with some friends I met on the server. Bought a "learn c++ for dummies book" (even though it was programmed in c) and started modifying the server and the rest was history ;) I guess I was 14 at the time and I haven't stopped programming since. Gaming is definitely the gateway drug to programming and text based games are in some ways the most interesting form for learning due to not having to worry about graphics and immediately seeing results like you mention.

I've often thought about implementing "Claude plays" some open source mud. Seems like a much more pure form of experiment since it's all text.

codingdave|7 months ago

> tonnes of really bad code other clueless newbies like myself had written...

When I first looked at MUD code, I had not yet learned to code. I thought that the folks who wrote the code must be so smart, and felt intimidated by it. Fast forward a few decades, and I recently looked at MUD code again. I spent a week porting ROT 1.4 to a node server, mostly just as a personal coding exercise, and found myself realizing just how bad that code actually was.

Yet we need to be fair. As you said, it was written by newbies, mostly students. It was written before modern tech stacks, before modern practices. And despite all the critique we could throw at it... it worked. It stills works. It was shared, copied, modified, and kept on working for many people, over many years. And it definitely inspired people to learn and try new things.

BrenBarn|7 months ago

When I was starting out with Python, I found a library that implemented a Python version of MOO. It was brilliantly named "POO" (although in later versions it lamentably changed its name to "MOOP"). The cool thing about it was the in-world coding language was also Python, so when you code for custom rooms and objects, etc., it was all Python. I had a lot of fun with it.

Cthulhu_|7 months ago

I suspect that in another 10 years or so - or probably today already - we'll see similar stories coming from people who started with e.g. Minecraft or Roblox, which are in a sense just as much programming, user generated content games as MUDs are. Maybe a bit more visual.

nvader|7 months ago

If we are talking MUDs, I have to plug the Discworld MUD, https://discworld.atuin.net/lpc/

I spent a lot of time on there growing up. Based on the copious writings of Terry Pratchett, it's full of whimsy and humor but also quite addicting and deep gameplay.

It seems to have a pretty active player base, too.

swyx|7 months ago

warms my heart that discworld is still being kept alive by fans. i wonder how the fandom can prosper if not grow. TP is still underappreciated by so many, and in many ways timeless bc of the fantasy element.

vildoran|7 months ago

It's a bit surreal to see this on the frontpage. I'm one of the main developers working on new content and maintaining the existing content. Happy to answer any questions, if people have them.

T2T is a very interesting place. It's been contributed to by hundreds of volunteer developers over the years, some of which had zero coding experience when they started. Several have gone on to pursue software engineering or other technical jobs, which I've always found really cool.

tibbon|7 months ago

How can other developers help and participate in building, maintaining and operating the MUD? I've always wanted to be able to contribute to it. Am I correct that the source code isn't public?

xedrac|7 months ago

I haven't played a MUD in the last 25 years, but I think I would enjoy playing this one if I had time. In some ways MUDs were much more fun than modern games. I wonder what codebase it derives from.

veiviseren|7 months ago

I coded for/built/scripted dozens of MUDs in my teens, the Two Towers the first one I played, possibly visited hundreds of these servers around the time my peers were on WoW, my first builder role was writing emote string patterns and room descriptions for the cooling tanks of a space station in a Star Wars MUD and I learned about OOP implementing a mob, combat, pathfinding, and crafting systems atop a python 2.4 engine my classmate gave me on a CD rom

out of the all the MUDs from that era I think the most noteworthy was Assault, which was a Merc derivative mod with a top down map for real time strategy base defense, active around 2006 then disappeared into obscurity, and very wild in a pre-Dwarf Fortress era

Anduia|7 months ago

Originally it was the TMI-2 mudlib running on MudOS [1], though my understanding is that they heavily modified the codebase over time. The library was never officially released as open source [2], but the code (in C) is included in a ZIP file alongside installers and related files [3].

As for the JavaScript client, it appears to be proprietary.

[1] https://t2tmud.org/boards/news/1402345353.php

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPMud#TMI_Mudlib

[3] https://mudbytes.net/files/view/1041

qmr|7 months ago

LPMUD / TMI-2 mudlib.

Heavily modified. Language is C like.

Source code has been leaked in the past.

floren|7 months ago

After trying the tutorial it feels like a Diku MUD, but of course heavily modified. I'd be interested to know more too, though, and will be poking around the website.

bokchoi|7 months ago

I spent many hours hogging the phone line to play btech 3056 back in high school. It was so cool talking to people all over the world. I wasn't very good at the actual game, however. I do remember encountering a bug where I was placed on a level-4 high building and I couldn't get off of it because my mech wouldn't let me intentionally fall.

girvo|7 months ago

There was a Battletech MUD??? That's so cool :) MechWarrior 2 is what got me into it as a kid

jghn|7 months ago

I nearly failed out of school a few times because of 3055! And over time I worked my way to be a faction leader for one of the IS houses. That was basically like working a full time job but obviously no pay. Which wasn’t great as someone who already wasn’t spending enough time on schoolwork

davidgay|7 months ago

Also still running, after more than 33 years: mume.org

Disclaimer: I used to help run this - my main contribution was an extension language, which started as a Scheme+Forth hybrid (everyone hated that...) and quickly morphed into sort-of-Scheme with "conventional" syntax.

SeanAnderson|7 months ago

Wow! The front page shows a list of updates being made to the game. Lots of recent changes.

Then I clicked into the MUD, just to have a look, and the intro page said "celebrating 31 years online!"

It's cool to come across software that's both historical and current!

vingilote_t2t|7 months ago

t2tmud admin here - We have an active development team and recently released a new huge quest area expansion in Moria.

If you're interested and want to get game updates, or just to share LotR related memes, we have a Discord, Facebook group, and newsletter that goes out at least once a year.

Newsletter signup is on the website. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/t2tmud The link to the Discord can be found in the game by typing "help social media", after you complete the tutorial of course!

vildoran|7 months ago

It's been a really interesting exercise trying to develop content that's more modern, but for this sort of environment. Lately I've been working on procedurally-generated dungeons (for the sake of replayability) and seeing where we can integrate LLMs into our creative process. In some ways LLMs are great, but it's always pretty obvious a description for something was written by an LLM. If nothing else, it's a nice starting point for that sort of work.

qmr|7 months ago

Wasted so many of my tween, teen, and 20s years here. ... And a bit of my 30s.

Still play now and then. Got a friend into it too.

Great way to game in a terminal window at work.

Check out KBtin MUD client!

topato|7 months ago

It's never a waste to play terminal games/nethack during class or work!

Bonus points if you pass the class or get paid/don't get fired!

lordosse|7 months ago

As others have said, I also learned coding on a MUD - the one linked to in this thread, actually. LPC and the TMI codebase, and having something I was passionate about to work on, was a great way to get started with C-based programming. What I learned there easily translated to doing web work with PHP and then later to real-word app dev with C++ and C#. Thirty years, hundreds of thousands of lines of code and several dozen in-game projects later, I'm still there as an admin. It's a funny old world.

guestbest|7 months ago

It was really fun watching the MOO and MUD and MUSH as the beginnings of the online, real time classroom and forums before the internet services and web servers really took off. All that was needed was Telnet which came with just about every computer. No browser needed. I think what killed it for growth was all the rules that needed to be read and followed before discussion could take place. IRC was much simpler

astronads|7 months ago

Anyone out there still playing MUDs? Any good ones to recommend?

hboon|7 months ago

I played for 1000+ hours on https://www.aardwolf.com more than 20 years ago. Looks right it's still being updated.

nerevarthelame|7 months ago

I'm heavily involved in DragonRealms [0]. Its older brother GemStone is still kicking around too.

Players of both games built an open source Ruby-based scripting engine called Lich [1] that allows insanely complex levels of automation. When I "play" the game I'm usually writing scripts to share with the community and optimizing my training configuration.

Both games have 30+ years of dedicated development and insanely deep lore and history. They've embraced micro-transactions to stay financially solvent, but participating in that is absolutely not necessary.

[0]: https://www.play.net/dr/ [1]: https://github.com/elanthia-online/lich-5

BrenBarn|7 months ago

Been a while since I did but sometimes I hop on one I played back in the day, like Ishar or Materia Magica, to scratch a certain itch. Looks like a good number of the old ones are still going.

blazinglambda|7 months ago

Valhalla MUD is really good, and has had a resurgence of activity recently. They've redone the class system, added a bunch of zones, and added some discord integration etc. I played decades ago starting as an 8 year old who knew nothing lol but I still log in from time to time. Super deep game if you have time to invest.

forgetfreeman|7 months ago

discworld.atuin.net. If it's still up it's not to be missed. Easily the richest MUD experience I've encountered in decades of playing, regardless of how you feel about Terry Pratchet.

qmr|7 months ago

t2t is fun. I never managed to really get into any others.

DonHopkins|7 months ago

Professor Richard Bartle recently retired, but he regularly assigned his students to play MUD2 in his Computer Game Design and Virtual Worlds classes at the University of Essex! He and Michael Lawrie co-created the original MUD1 at Essex in 1978.

https://www.essex.ac.uk/people/BARTL01006/Richard-Bartle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bartle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designing_Virtual_Worlds

https://www.mud.co.uk/richard/DesigningVirtualWorlds.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_taxonomy_of_player_type...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD2

I played the original MUD1 over the ARPANET at 300 baud via a (very slow, very expensive, taxpayer funded) US/UK trans-Atlantic gateway.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7677438

DonHopkins on May 1, 2014 | next [–]

Here's some notes I wrote down on how to connect to Essex University via an ARPANET gateway, log in to Essex University, and run MUD! I must have been about 15 at the time. I wrote it on one page of a Zork map, as you can see.

http://www.donhopkins.com/home/images/EssexMUDLogin.jpg

Thanks a lot to Richard A. Bartle and Michael Lawrie for sharing!

Here are the instructions and some notes to explain what the commands mean:

MUD: Multi User Dungeon

@O 42 -- This was the old TIP command to open a connection to an NCP host id #42 (NCP host IDs were 8 bits. The TIP command to connect to a host was later changed to @L. See "User's Guide to the Terminal IMP" at http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/bbn/tip/ADA... )

%CON ESX TORUS EPSS 52200300 -- That's a command to the gateway to connect to Essex University in the UK.

LOG 1776,1776 -- That logs you into the guest account for Americans to play MUD.

Password BUZBY

TY GUID.TXT -- That types out the intro guide to MUD.

RU DSKB:MUD[2011,2653] -- That runs MUD.

K/P or K/B Logs off

dang on May 1, 2014 | next [–]

That's so great. Who was Eliot? :)

DonHopkins on May 1, 2014 | parent | next [–]

Eliot lived in Northern Virginia, had the user name ELIOT@AI (an MIT AI lab tourist account), and I think his dad worked for the FBI.

Michael Lawrie: Oi, [1776,1776] was my username!

Oh wait, I was [1760,1760] - I guess [1776,1776] was either one of the CompSoc accounts or a leaked user account. Richard would know - Though that probably dates it, you would have been on [2653,2653] from about 1985/1986 I think. Maybe even earlier than that - Though the files are still on [2011,2653] - Hum. Yep! I am officially confused. You just wrote this to mess with my head, didn't you.

Richard A. Bartle: It was 2776, not 1776. Gawd knows where the 1776 came from.

Don Hopkins: 1776 is the year of the American revolution -- "Those Americans are revolting!!!"

The login password of the 1776,1776 account (which Richard announced via the INFO-MUD ARPANET mailing list inviting Americans to play, which I was subscribed to because of my interest in ZORK) referred to Buzby, a yellow (later orange) talking cartoon bird, launched in 1976 as part of a marketing campaign by Post Office Telecommunications, which later became British Telecommunications (BT). His catchphrase was "Make soneone happy with a phone call!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzby

====> [Fast forward to 2025...] ====>

Here's something I've been working on that's inspired by MUDs and MOOs called "LLOOOOMM" (it even has two "MOO"s spelled backwards embedded in its name):

https://lloooomm.com/memory-lane-recording-session.html

[...] The MOO Connection

Ben's multi-stream recording approach directly descends from MOO culture:

TinyMUD (1989): First persistent virtual world with objects

LambdaMOO (1990): Pavel Curtis's programmable virtual reality

Virtual VCRs: Record and playback conversation streams

LLOOOOMM (2024): Every interaction creates persistent, queryable objects

As Ben notes: "MOOs taught us that text could be experiential, that conversations could be objects, that time could be rewound and replayed. We're just doing it with more dimensions now!"

https://lloooomm.com

https://github.com/SimHacker/lloooomm/tree/main/03-Resources...

https://lloooomm.com/the-ground-truth-issue-1.html

Pattern Recognition Convergence

From: The Recursive Owl (Henry's Spirit Animal)

I see patterns within patterns, and the pattern connecting both papers is clear: consciousness emerges through recursive self-modification. Henry created me to analyze him; the chess pieces created new rules to analyze their own game. Both demonstrate consciousness as "shared memory with opinions" - but also shared memory with the ability to modify the sharing protocols themselves!

aldanor|7 months ago

Used to be an immortal (admin/main dev) in Solace MUD based on dragonlance. It's actually running now apparently, revived after some years offline.

It was funny how myself and my friend became imms there - we offered a patch to fix a real bug to then-admin who couldn't code a thing because he inherited the project, injecting a security hole so we could stream source code through the mud itself, lol. Lots of stuff learned, lots of hacks, tons of dirty C code. Test it all in production, on real people.

bovermyer|7 months ago

Once upon a time, I considered writing a MUD engine of my own, but I got distracted and forgot about it.

I wonder what it would be like to write one from scratch in 2025. Maybe I have a new project.

xahrepap|7 months ago

Oh wow! Didn’t expect to see this piece of my childhood on the front page!

I used to spend hours on telnet playing this game with my friend. What a fun blast to the past!

safety1st|7 months ago

Pretty amazing that this is still around. I used to be active on Elendor MUSH, but as far as I know it's been dead for years - I poke my head in once every year or two and there are always 0 players online.

uncleben3k|7 months ago

Amazing game, really. So deep, such longevity, and so cool community. Can't believe it's still being developed with such passion, the active coders of the game are something else, in a positive way. Can't recommend this one enough if you want to learn coding either, they take players as coders and basically crowd source their engine to keep the game running.

teroshan|7 months ago

As someone that never touched a MUD (but plenty of ASCII roguelikes), I see that MUD clients are recommended [1] to be used.

Any other clients I should be looking at, for this particular MUD but also others? Are they generic enough to be used with multiple games?

[1] https://t2tmud.org/clients.php

0xEF|7 months ago

I also like Mudlet and KildClient, but it's really best of you try a few and decide which works best for your tastes and needs. Blowtorch is still the go-to client if you want to play via Android mobile, last I checked. And you can always just straight up connect via telnet/ssh using your favorite terminal emulator if you want to keep things really simple and exercise your skills with graph paper.

vildoran|7 months ago

KBtin is the one I use, partially for its TLS support (though most MUDs don't offer that). If you use it for T2T, you can connect using '#sslses t2t t2tmud.org 444'

You can also just SSH in (ssh towers@t2tmud.org), though honestly that isn't the best experience...

qmr|7 months ago

KBtin!

mdtrooper|7 months ago

In spanish there are some very old muds:

- Balzhur: https://balzhur.org/ is have been running from january 2000

- Medina: medinamud.top sometimes was offline but it have been running from 1995

hombre_fatal|7 months ago

I started playing Balzhur 5 years ago to practice Spanish.

Ended up befriending a blind guy from Venezuela and wondering if most people still playing MUDs might be blind.

I logged on a few weeks ago and noticed he still plays, but I forgot the commands to do anything so I never left him a message.

There's also:

- rlmud.org 23 https://www.reinosdeleyenda.es/ -- Still relatively popular for a MUD in Spanish

- mud.simauria.org 23 http://www.simauria.org/ -- This game was cute and quaint 5 years ago but now you can't get past the email verification anymore. I've messaged the admin email for this site a few times over the years asking if I can archive the server code but I don't think anyone ever receives it

- cyberlife.es 7777 https://www.cyberlife.es/ -- Logged into this just a few weeks ago to test charset support on my hobby mud client. It's a real life Madrid-like world mostly geared towards roleplaying I think (no combat). When I logged in as Sindulfo, someone said my name sounded like a butler and if there also existed a Condulfo. Was kinda funny to chat with them.

Sucks to know the source code for these servers will all get lost forever.

keridil|7 months ago

I cannot believe it is still running nowadays! Colour me impressed.

schlauerfox|7 months ago

Does anyone remember that type of early web form multiplayer games where you'd allocate resources by percentages and then fight against other 'countries' in turn based games? Do those still exist?

Jolter|7 months ago

I used to play one of those back in 1999 or so, and amazingly it still seems to be going! Now on season 107…

https://utopia-game.com/shared/

Terrifically addictive back when entertainment was scarce — I can’t imagine spending much time on such a thing these days. But it reminds me a bit of idle games.

Inviz|7 months ago

Is there some youtube channel covering some interesting stories from MUDs? From dev, player POV and everything in between. Craving for some emergent storytelling of MUDs to listen to while falling asleep

Liquix|7 months ago

while it's not a MUD, dwarf fortress has emergent gameplay and rich storytelling in spades. there are multiple renditions of the (in)famous "boatmurdered" let's play on youtube.

anthk|7 months ago

More than listening, Nethack (better with Slashem) allows a lot of emergent gameplay.

Also, Cataclysm DDA:Bright Nights.

camgunz|7 months ago

Wow, I (kind of, my friends were way better at it than I was) played The Two Towers in like '95-'96. Honestly should get back into it; I bet I'd love it now.

imzadi|7 months ago

I used to be heavy into this MUD in the 90s. It's where I learned to program and made some good life-long friends (and even more life-long enemies lol).

anthk|7 months ago

I play Cybersphere from time to time. If you played Shadowrun/Shadowrun 2058 on the MD/Genesis (or the tabletop RPG) you'll be at home.

moffkalast|7 months ago

> Online continuously since 1994

It's been thirty years and Sauron is still alive and the war is still on?

Cthulhu_|7 months ago

A persistent online world with an always progressing historical timeline would be a really interesting concept to explore. Complicated though, as for example you don't really want new players to join when the world is on fire (unless that is your setting).

Some MMORPGs handle this alright (although tbh I only really know FFXIV at this point), where every player goes through their own timeline of sorts - you are The Warrior of Light, and as you progress through the story, you're pivotal in some great events like the defeat of the big bad or preventing the world from ending. That kinda thing. But the world is persistent, so it's only you that unlocks new areas and, in some cases, only you see some changes in the world or some NPCs. It's mostly through what NPCs tell you though.

vingilote_t2t|7 months ago

Funnily enough, every day is March 15, 3019 on t2t. Time stands still!

tcn33|7 months ago

So many hours of my life spent mudding - especially on Worlds of Carnage.

ralfd|7 months ago

What is a mud and can the game be won or is it endless?

fcatalan|7 months ago

Think text-based World of Warcraft. In fact the heritage is the inverse: from MUDs we got MMORPGs

ddanieltan|7 months ago

Used to play a MUD called heroes of the lance