[gregfjohnson]

On the topic of Microchip and secrecy: I downloaded and installed their IDE, MPLAB X IDE v6.20. It is for a pic3mx chip. The compiler looks like a completely generic gcc, built to cross-compile on a Windows host. However, they want a $1000.00 “licensing fee” in order to enable any optimization level above -O0. This seems wrong. Wouldn’t this be a violation of the copyleft license covering gcc? I’m guessing there’s some loophole, since otherwise EFF and folks would be going after them. Or perhaps they don’t know about this situation? Should I alert EFF to this situation

[Tuna-Fish]

The GPL in no way forbids that. However, if they are obeying GPL you can ask them for the source code and then remove that limit yourself. If you ask for the source and they don't give it to you, then alert GNU.

[lmz]

Of course that depends if the optimization was compiled into the version they have. One can imagine two binaries with the optimizations just missing from the free one.

[immibis]

In some jurisdictions you may even be able to sue them for the source code without bothering GNU.

[extraduder_ire]

How much does it look like gcc? Can you run it on its own with a --version argument, or run it through strings to get the text out of it.

If it's actually gcc, a copy of the GPL should have come with the software. A bunch of other compilers mimic a lot of its interface for compatibility’s sake.

[dmitrygr]

Ran into this at Google. Qualcomm compiler for their DSP was an expensive branch of GCC. I asked my manager if we could just ask them for source instead of paying per-seat license. He said that “ our contract with Qualcomm specifically prohibits us from asking them for the source of this compiler”. They found the workaround tor GPL I guess.

[howerj]

I have heard that this is how it is done before. I wonder how that works with a third party? If they happened to come across the binaries some how they could demand the source. I also wonder if that clause is enforceable.

[fragmede]

The GPL doesn't say you can't charge money for things. Do they provide patches for their changes to the source?

[znpy]

I think that the issue here is the following:

    - you can charge money for things
    - anything that's not built with the "official compiler" is not "supported"

I've interviewed for a junior embedded software engineer when i was in university and when i started mentioning i had experience building cross-compilers i was immediately stopped by the guy interviewing me (he literally didn't even let me finish the sentence) and told me "Absolutely no. We don't want to maintain our own toolchain and we want everything to be coming from the BSP [Board support package] and integrated nicely with the vendor's IDE.

They used ARM chips, so not even anything strange...

The real issue would come if they did not provide the source code for the gcc build they sell you, though.

[Cerium]

It's been this way forever... They do distribute source (but last time I checked it is with incomplete build info). I think there is also some BS fine print about the licensing fee being for the provided header files.

[stephen_g]

Yeah I’m really not a fan - we had some designs with PICs on them and ended up switching to NXP micros (MCX-A and i.MX-RT) instead, partly because of MPLAB and also because the Microchip ones had some annoying quirks. NXP’s documentation I find a lot better too. I literally try to avoid Microchip where I can from the experience…

[jmiskovic]

Personally I hated the NXP's docs for the ARM M4 core. Bunch of dry tables listing each register in details, lacking the juicy diagrams and descriptions on how the bits integrate to work as a subsystem. I constantly needed to cross-reference 3+ documents (most of which describe the whole family and not the specific IC). Their HALs and code samples were obviously written by students/interns.

I liked working with Microchip uC, but this was back when the whole IC (PIC24) was described in a single ~1000 page document. I found it very readable and instructive in general.

If I had to pick something today it would be with RP2040/2350. The docs look awesome and there's a huge community that is not locked down in some corporate moderated forum but spread organically, with actually useful GitHub projects. It is the only embedded product where it felt like the open source community is along for the ride and not just picking up the scraps. I hope they continue this line of products.

[TexasMick]

They have the source code on their website: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/tools-resources/archives/mpl...

[msgodel]

That's such a weird thing to do. MPLab used to be completely free to encourage people to use their chips.