[khrbrt]

Meanwhile China is building it's own giant telescopes: https://www.science.org/content/article/china-quietly-prepar...

And will soon launch their own version of Hubble: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuntian

Deeply embarrassing as a US citizen.

[cultofmetatron]

> Deeply embarrassing as a US citizen.

agreed. America's attitude towards china has been absurd. instead of seeing it as an opportunity for us to step up, we deflect responsibility as if america was forced to offshore its manufacturing and venerate idiots over scientists.

[Teever]

I think a big part of it is that the admission that offshoring was a bad idea that has created a threat to American hegemony would require acknowledgement that neoliberalism has been an abject failure and a ruse by the upper class to suck up capital and political power from the middle class.

That sort of discussion and the consequences from having it just isn't on the menu.

There isn't going to be a massive wealth redistribution in the other direction to offset the redistribution that has taken place over the last 40 years. There isn't going to be taxation reforms to prevent this from occuring again. There isn't going to be a focus on white collar crimes from the Justice department.

Things are just going to slowly get worse and worse in America.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLSveRGmpIE&pp=0gcJCfwAo7VqN5t...

[Yeul]

Yeah but does China have tax cuts for the rich?

Because let's be real here all the patriotism is just a facade the rich want to keep the money for themselves. Singing the national anthem on the fourth of July is cheap.

[elcritch]

Yes, especially if you’re part of the CCP [1]. Well if they’re taxed at all. Can’t be taxed if you hide your wealth.

At least the wealth of the richest people in the US is made by people producing value and services. Bezos is rich because people like myself find Amazon and AWS to be quite good.

IMHO, the biggest wealth problem in the US is the rise of upper-middle class “elites” and management class. The one driving “mergers and acquisitions” to reduce competition between grocery stores or using rent control software to eke up rent costs.

1: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/oct/8/intelligence...

[autobodie]

"Nationalism is a bourgeois trick.” —Vladimir Lenin

[47282847]

I wish we could operate on the principle of data sharing in science. What a waste of resources to needlessly replicate and compete. Also, great, somebody else is doing it so we don’t have to! Less work for us.

[mosesbp]

This is already how astronomy, and specifically cosmology, research works in the US (and most other places). Data is made public within a short period of obtaining it on a schedule (usually less than a couple years) that is set before data is taken.

It is far from clear that the Chinese government supports this type of open data sharing.

[readthenotes1]

"Deeply embarrassing as a US citizen."

Agreed. The US has squandered so much money over the decades that they're now over $300k/taxpayer in debt, with interest to that that being the fourth largest cost, and two of the top three being insufficiently funded programs that simply steal from the grandchildren.

It would be even more embarrassing if we didn't cut back on non-essential spending.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time https://share.google/adgsGnl43Yk8S0zDq

[apical_dendrite]

Yeah, let's cut back on the relatively small investments in science that actually grow the economy, particularly at a moment in time when our geopolitical competitors are making enormous investments, and when leadership and talent in science is more important than ever.

Just walk around the Boston area and look at how much of the economy is driven by federal research funding attracting global talent to universities, which then generates ideas and the next generation of talent, which feeds the biotech companies, which grow the economy.

Letting all of that happen in China instead of the US just to make a tiny dent in the deficit (and to punish progressive institutions and prevent cultural change from immigration) is unbelievably fucking stupid.

[Gud]

Being at the forefront of science is not ~non-essential~.

It is literally one of the most important things to make a nation great.

[mcphage]

> It would be even more embarrassing if we didn't cut back on non-essential spending.

Boy are you going to feel bad as you watch what happens to the debt over the next few years.

[wpm]

Perhaps this pain would be worth it if we also cut back on non-essential tax-cuts for the rich.

Instead, we're cutting cheap scraps like this from the budget while the fattest fucks at the table get to gorge themselves for another two years.

[ujkhsjkdhf234]

Trump just added 4 trillion more in debt funding tax cuts for billionaire. The amount of money science research gets in the US is pennies compared to that. Investments in science always returns on investment in the form of technology. The internet was a research project mind you.

[echelon]

Can this be expressed on a graph?

Can we see expenditures, big equipment contributions, Nobel prizes, etc. on a graph?

[itishappy]

Expenditures:

https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20246/cross-national-compariso...

[lofaszvanitt]

Why? China will do the job, instead of US...

[whodidntante]

This, and many other things in the area of science, is an embarrassment.

However, I feel that what is argued about, by all sides, misses the point.

The US spends 2X what China does on civilian space programs, and 4X what Europe spends. We spend 2X as much on health care, 1.5X as much on education, and 2X as much on science research.

Our systems are inefficient and corrupt, and that is what needs to be addressed.

Arguing for or against how much money we need to spend or to cut is just the modern day circus that distracts everyone from the real problems and provides everyone on both sides with feel good excuses.

[Arainach]

>Our systems are inefficient and corrupt, and that is what needs to be addressed.

Citation needed. Even Musk's DOGE trolls found no evidence of significant corruption/inefficiency.

[herbst]

You are embarrassed because other countries can do things too?

[autoexec]

Seems like it's more because other counties can do things we no longer can or are willing to.

[biohcacker84]

On the other hand, the US is close to bankruptcy. And that's not all the current admin's fault.

And their cuts are trying to avoid that, although they have thrown out many babies with the bath water. It's hard to blame them for trying to avoid default, which would be far worse than anything.

The program apparently cost $900 million which is not a trivial cost.

[Moomoomoo309]

Yeah, except for the tax cuts for the wealthy which created more debt than all of their other cuts combined, and then some.