> The app represents an unprecedented linking of government databases into a single tool, including from the State Department, Customs and Border Protection (CBP), the FBI, and state records
I think we're well past the point of stopping these dystopian practices given the government has already collected this data. They're merely using it how they want. If you go through customs as a US citizen, you don't even need to hand over your passport: they just scan your face now.
Calling out these practices is good, but the time to stop this would've been after 9/11 and the ensuing terrorism hysteria (Patriot Act, FISA, etc..) which gave three letter agencies the go-ahead to do whatever they want.
I agree - but technology is just a tool here. The Stasi famously had a network of human informants to notice and collect information.
Going forward it would be nice if we stopped letting these mobs grab power but it's too late, so maybe the effort should be focused on using tools like this to our advantage. Surely there must be some value to the populous to track their oppressors and those that control them - have you considered building a citizen-powered system so you can watch the watchers?
To add to it, I crossed the border into the US via train recently, and for the first time (I've done this trip many, many times) they took my photo on their cell phone after scanning my paperwork, as they did with everyone else. So they are further expanding with more/recent data.
The time to stop it is right now before it gets a massive boost in funding and becomes unstoppable. “Oh no too late” is literally the worst advice I’ve ever heard. Get all hands on deck right now.
>go take a flight
>demand your photo be taken
>"as far as I know it's mandatory"
>"I assure you the image is deleted"
>"fingerprints derived from the image, what are those"
Thanks TSA for logging the facial parameters of 200 million citizens, I'm sure that invasion of privacy helped your basic mission, to screen passengers for planes
Hm. No, I think the practice of using a capability for a bad goal is inherently worse than merely having a capability that can be used for a bad goal. (The whole principle behind the second amendment, after all!)
And we should condemn the overreach on its own terms and by its own moral failings and not just wave it away with a both-sides-ist "They're merely using it how they want".
Bad things are bad and we should say they are bad. Because at the end of the day every government is possessed of terrible power and the only reason any of them don't get worse is that we vote for the people who aren't bad.
it is made with public money, and as it can't be stopped, it should just be made available to the general public and businesses. I think that should be applied to all the government collected info (except for narrow cases specifically excluded like health and IRS records - though i think IRS records also should be public)
This was demonstrated in the investigation into the January 6th riots.
ICE is not the only part of the government using it, or something like it.
Might be made seperately for each agency, more profitable that way.
If they are going to do this, they really ought to corroborate the face recognition with fingerprints. Many people have unrelated doppelgangers, even if an AI algorithm was near perfect: https://twinstrangers.net/
It would appear the software returns a lot of “potential matches” with propensity scores and demographic and recording information and it’s up to the agent to make the final determination.
It’s more a tool to find potential matches rather than a program that pops up and says “this is who this person is”
As a former MAGA it's just mind boggling to watch all the supposedly freedom loving GOP base clamor for mass digital surveillance and gestapo immigration raids. These same tools and policies will just be used against them in the future. Makes me question democracy.
The news of Palantir database was pretty unpopular among the twitter right from what I've seen. If it came to a public vote I doubt "government builds giant surveillance system" would get wide support from anyone even if it was spun as anti-immigrant.
This is just something the type of people who end up in government try every year despite the fact few people want it.
> As a former MAGA it's just mind boggling to watch all the supposedly freedom loving GOP base clamor for mass digital surveillance and gestapo immigration raids.
Both (sweeping away due process for mass deportation, and eliminating restrictions on law enforcement and surveillance in the name of “law and order” generally) were both major promises of Trump’s 2024 campaign and things that he made steps toward limited by institutional forces (courts, political resistance including in some cases from old-line Republicans, etc.), which Trump and the MAGA movement derided as deep state traitors, during his 2017-2021 term.
Kind of surprising to see someone who describes themselves as ex-MAGA who is surprised that the GOP under Trump supports these things.
When the founder of Palantir donates a ton of money -- as well as one of his acolytes to be the VP -- it would be more surprising if this DIDN'T happen. This is precisely the kind of thing the angry right wing would be up in arms about (maybe even literally) if it wasn't their side pushing for it.
The billionaire party owns both political parties; they shuffle the front-people to give the illusion of choice. In reality they get what they want. George Carlin spoke eloquently about this.
Not in the future, these tools and policies are already used against everyone right now. Plenty of Trump supporters have already been arrested and/or deported by ICE.
neonate|7 months ago
hypeatei|7 months ago
I think we're well past the point of stopping these dystopian practices given the government has already collected this data. They're merely using it how they want. If you go through customs as a US citizen, you don't even need to hand over your passport: they just scan your face now.
Calling out these practices is good, but the time to stop this would've been after 9/11 and the ensuing terrorism hysteria (Patriot Act, FISA, etc..) which gave three letter agencies the go-ahead to do whatever they want.
cardamomo|7 months ago
linkjuice4all|7 months ago
Going forward it would be nice if we stopped letting these mobs grab power but it's too late, so maybe the effort should be focused on using tools like this to our advantage. Surely there must be some value to the populous to track their oppressors and those that control them - have you considered building a citizen-powered system so you can watch the watchers?
marcianx|7 months ago
cyral|7 months ago
It's always amazed me how well this works when they are scanning you with the same 2015-era cheap logitech camera I have.
matthewdgreen|7 months ago
amy214|7 months ago
>go take a flight >demand your photo be taken >"as far as I know it's mandatory" >"I assure you the image is deleted" >"fingerprints derived from the image, what are those" Thanks TSA for logging the facial parameters of 200 million citizens, I'm sure that invasion of privacy helped your basic mission, to screen passengers for planes
axus|7 months ago
ajross|7 months ago
And we should condemn the overreach on its own terms and by its own moral failings and not just wave it away with a both-sides-ist "They're merely using it how they want".
Bad things are bad and we should say they are bad. Because at the end of the day every government is possessed of terrible power and the only reason any of them don't get worse is that we vote for the people who aren't bad.
trhway|7 months ago
ThinkBeat|7 months ago
chriskanan|7 months ago
refurb|7 months ago
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy...
It would appear the software returns a lot of “potential matches” with propensity scores and demographic and recording information and it’s up to the agent to make the final determination.
It’s more a tool to find potential matches rather than a program that pops up and says “this is who this person is”
acomjean|7 months ago
hnpolicestate|7 months ago
dmix|7 months ago
This is just something the type of people who end up in government try every year despite the fact few people want it.
dragonwriter|7 months ago
Both (sweeping away due process for mass deportation, and eliminating restrictions on law enforcement and surveillance in the name of “law and order” generally) were both major promises of Trump’s 2024 campaign and things that he made steps toward limited by institutional forces (courts, political resistance including in some cases from old-line Republicans, etc.), which Trump and the MAGA movement derided as deep state traitors, during his 2017-2021 term.
Kind of surprising to see someone who describes themselves as ex-MAGA who is surprised that the GOP under Trump supports these things.
blitzar|7 months ago
It makes me question all sorts of things when people get what they were promised and then complain they got it.
refurb|7 months ago
It’s either indifference (mostly due to ignorance) or outright opposition?
ljsprague|7 months ago
mikece|7 months ago
The billionaire party owns both political parties; they shuffle the front-people to give the illusion of choice. In reality they get what they want. George Carlin spoke eloquently about this.
burkaman|7 months ago
b59831|7 months ago
[deleted]
ta8645|7 months ago
[deleted]
miohtama|7 months ago
mikece|7 months ago
rimbo789|7 months ago
[deleted]
sreejithr|7 months ago