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ipv6ipv4 | 7 months ago

> Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off.

This information should be kept in mind whenever anyone, especially a gun advocate, expresses dismay at the frequency of police shootings in America. America is so awash in guns, and people willing to use them, that for the average cop it is better to shoot first and ask questions later than to risk returning home in a body bag. We’ve just been informed that in threatening situations there is no time to chamber a round, but cops are simultaneously supposed to take the time to evaluate the threat to their safety.

discuss

order

TheFreim|7 months ago

> We’ve just been informed that in threatening situations there is no time to chamber a round, but cops are simultaneously supposed to take the time to evaluate the threat to their safety.

I think you have misunderstood the order of operations in a violent encounter. The issue of chambering a round is in light of the fact that you have already identified an immediate violent threat and you need to end that threat. The entire question of carrying chambered/empty is completely separate from threat identification and whether or not a shooting is justified.

You also simply don't appear understand the time scale in which violent altercations and legitimate responses take place. They happen quickly, and so once a threat has been identified you need to remove as many barriers to action as possible. Adding 1/2 to 2 seconds can easily be the difference between life and death after you've already made the judgement about the situation. Again, the issue here isn't whether or not someone has identified a threat but rather how quickly and effectively they can respond after they've identified the threat.

If we want to speak intelligently about use of force and police reform we should avoid conflating unrelated issues (i.e. whether or not an office acted appropriately versus the ability to act properly after a threat has been identified).

ipv6ipv4|7 months ago

These arbitrary distinctions are in your mind. The real world is messy, and there is an algorithmic fallacy at the core of your argument.

You've carefully laid out why carrying a chambered weapon is critical for minimizing the reaction time to a perceived threat. So you've explained why a suspect has his gun chambered. It's anyone's guess when that suspect decides he has "identified an immediate violent threat" in the cop near him. Now the cop, by definition, must identify and respond faster than the suspect pulling out his chambered weapon. That doesn't work well for the cop, and you've optimized away any time for his to reason and react about the situation he's in.

You haven't reasoned about anything you are saying.

gottorf|7 months ago

> America is so awash in guns, and people willing to use them, that for the average cop it is better to shoot first and ask questions later than to risk returning home in a body bag.

This is only true in certain circumstances, though it makes a lot of people uncomfortable to discuss.

andrewflnr|7 months ago

Yes, cops (should) face higher standards for their behavior and the safety of those around them. That's by design. Supposedly that's why we respect them more than, say, a cashier, but both sides of that deal have broken down.

AngryData|7 months ago

To me that just sounds like a huge excuse for cops who are rarely ever shot at in real life. The majority of cops never even have a reason to draw or fire their gun their entire career. Being a cop isn't even a very dangerous job, and all but a handful of cop injuries on the job are due to car crashes that they themselves initiated. A random residential framer has a far higher chance of injury and death than cops in even known dangerous and highly criminal areas.

ipv6ipv4|7 months ago

I’m not saying cops are always free of fault, and yes, some are trigger happy goons. But in an environment that affords close to zero reaction time, it is no surprise that cops are trained the way they are, and behave the way they do. Indeed, they are not in danger most of the time. But when they are, they have close to no time to think about it. As a result, it is in the interest of their own well being to assume that all situations are dangerous and to act accordingly.

ImPostingOnHN|7 months ago

> cops are simultaneously supposed to take the time to evaluate the threat to their safety

Everybody else is supposed to do this. Cops can avoid this and suffer no liability or criminal charges.