[jphoward]

I think they could release non-agentic models that are as good as 4o, and have almost no repercussions on sales tbh.

I have Ollama installed (only a small proportion of their clients would have a large enough GPU for this) and have download deepseek and played with it, but I still pay for an OpenAI subscription because I want the speed of a hosted model, and never mind the luxuries of things like Codex's diffs/pull request support, agents on new models, deep research etc. - I use them all at least weekly.

[44za12]

I pay for Cursor, OpenAI and kimi (to use with Claude Code), OpenAI is good with quickly refining my thoughts, Cursor’s subscription I’m reconsidering to cancel bought it for Claude but the rate limits are making it impossible for me to find it useful. Kimi is what truly surprises me, Claude code shows this conversation costed you $500 (based on Opus usage which is mapped to kimi k2) while I’ve barely spent $2. I have Ollama as well, majorly to quickly test small models that could be improved for our usecase through finetuning.

[ewoodrich]

I've been using Kimi with Roo via OpenRouter and have been very surprised at how capable it is. It's the first open model I've tried that actually lives up to claims I see online that's it on par with this or that previous gen proprietary model. Context window has been the only negative, at least with the providers OpenRouter has been giving me but forgiveable given how absurdly cheap it is.

[garciasn]

What am I doing wrong that I'm never hitting the rate limits on the $100 Max plan?

[vineyardmike]

They would definitely have sales repercussions, but it might be worth it.

They are fully trying to be a consumer product, developer services be damned. But they can’t just get rid of the API because it’s a good incremental source of revenue, and thanks to the Microsoft deal, all that revenue would end up in Azure. Maintaining their API is basically just a way to get a slice of that revenue.

But if they open sourced everything, it might sour the relationship more with Microsoft, who would lose azure revenue and might be willing to part ways. It would also ensure that they compete on consumer product quality not (directly) model quality. At this point, they could basically put any decent model in their app and maintain the user base, they don’t actually need to develop their own.