[avemg]

My advice is this:

1) Completely separate in your mind the auto-completion features from the agentic coding features. The auto-completion features are a neat trick but I personally find those to be a bit annoying overall, even if they sometimes hit it completely right. If I'm writing the code, I mostly don't want the LLM autocompletion.

2) Pay the $20 to get a month of Claude Pro access and then install Claude Code. Then, either wait until you have a small task in mind or your stuck on some stupid issue that you've been banging your head on and then open your terminal and fire up Claude Code. Explain to it in plain English what you want it to do. Pretend it's a colleague that you're giving a task to over Slack. And then watch it go. It works directly on your source code. There is no copying and pasting code.

3) Bookmark the Claude website. The next time you'd Google something technical, ask it Claude instead. General questions like "how does one typically implement a flizzle using the floppity-do framework"? "I'm trying to accomplish X, what are my options when using this stack?". General questions like that.

From there you'll start to get it and you'll get better at leverage the tool to do what you want. Then you can branch out the rest of the tool ecosystem.

[ryandrake]

Interesting about the auto-completion. That was really the only Copilot feature I found to be useful. The idea of writing out an English prompt and telling Copilot what to write sounded (and still sounds) so slow and clunky. By the time I've articulated what I want it to do, I might as well have written the code myself. The auto-completion was at least a major time-saver.

"The card game state is a structure that contains a Deck of cards, represented by a list of type Card, and a list of Players, each containing a Hand which is also a list of type Card, dealt randomly, round-robin from the Deck object." I could have input the data structure and logic myself in the amount of time it took to describe that.

[avemg]

I think you should embrace a bit of ambiguity. Don't treat this like a stupid computer where you have to specify everything in minute detail. Certainly the more detail you give, the better to an extent. But really: Treat it like you're talking to a colleague and give it a shot. You don't have to get it right on the first prompt. You see what it did and you give it further instructions. Autocomplete is the least compelling feature of all of this.

Also, I don't remember what model Copilot uses by default, especially the free version, but the model absolutely makes a difference. That's why I say to spend the $20. That gives you access to Sonnet 4 which is where, imo, these models took a giant leap forward in terms of quality of output.

[stillpointlab]

One analogy I have been thinking about lately is GPUs. You might say "The amount of time it takes me to fill memory with the data I want, copy from RAM to the GPU, let the GPU do it's thing, then copy it back to RAM, I might as well have just done the task on the CPU!"

I hope when I state it that way you start to realize the error in your thinking process. You don't send trivial tasks to the GPU because the overhead is too high.

You have to experiment and gain experience with agent coding. Just imagine that there are tasks where the overhead of explaining what to do and reviewing the output are dwarfed by the actual implementation. You have to calibrate yourself so you can recognize those tasks and offload them to the agent.

[potatolicious]

There's a sweet spot in terms of generalization. Yes, painstakingly writing out an object definition in English just so that the LLM can write it out in Java is a poor use of time. You want to give it more general tasks.

But not too general, because then it can get lost in the sauce and do something profoundly wrong.

IMO it's worth the effort to know these tools, because once you have a more intuitive sense for the right level of abstraction it really does help.

So not "make this very basic data structure for me based on my specs", and more like "rewrite this sequential logic into parallel batches", which might take some actual effort but also doesn't require the model to make too many decisions by itself.

It's also pretty good at tests, which tends to be very boilerplate-y, and by default that means you skip some cases, do a lot of brain-melting typing, or copy-and-paste liberally (and suffer the consequences when you missed that one search and replace). The model doesn't tire, and it's a simple enough task that the reliability is high. "Generate test cases for this object, making sure to cover edges cases A, B, and C" is a pretty good ROI in terms of your-time-spent vs. results.

[Pxtl]

Is there any more agent-oriented approach where it just push/pulls a git repo like a normal person would, instead of running it on my machine? I'd like to keep it a bit more isolated and having it push/pull its own branches seems tidier.