This is interesting because there can be a fine line between camaraderie and insularism. A feel-good atmosphere among workers is good, but if it doesn't include everyone, it can lead to favoritism towards those in the group relative to those outside, and that's not good. This can be especially important when people who aren't part of the org at all come into the equation (e.g., leading to the classic experience where a customer gets the feeling they're being a bother by expecting employees to help them rather than continue their private banter).
I think it's healthy to have these off-topic spaces, but also important to make sure that everyone in the org has some such space that meets their needs, and that everyone understands where the line is for when you have to put the fun aside and do what needs to be done.
A very common specialisation of this is drinking culture. Some guys just plain don't drink and definitely don't drink as much as the drinking culture would require, some women bluntly don't feel safe around a bunch of guys getting drunk. Managers who drink can lead to this weird thing where going out drinking feels mandatory. Shout out to my last manager who definitely did drink and didn't have a drinking culture.
> it shows an understanding that people need to unwind and interact, and work ultimately benefits. Funny how it’s such an alien concept the moment work moves online.
Offline people were in the same building under direct watch from the employer. We badged to enter and leave the building, employers surely felt fully in control.
Online that physical boundary disappearing, the pendulum swings the other way for companies that try to grasp the remaining bits of control.
That's one of the reason I prefer fully online shops, they'll usually have made peace with it and structured themselves in saner ways.
> That's one of the reason I prefer fully online shops, they'll usually have made peace with it and structured themselves in saner ways.
There's also a 'tipping point'. If you have 9 out of 10 people in the office, they're just going to be human and chat about stuff in the office and meet in person and the 1 person not there is best viewed as someone to farm piece work out to rather than part of the team. Which is fine in some cases but different than:
If 9 / 10 people are remote, then everyone is using the online tools and has to buy into them and they're all an integral part of the team.
We were talking about standup last week, and someone commented that we sometimes get a bit off track / into the weeds.
My response was that I'd much prefer we did this (talk about the surprises we're facing, or some interesting thing we stumbled across) than have it degrade to a pointless "yesterday I did x, today I will do y" where there's very little substance being communicated that isn't already evident from the Jira board.
> You can create as many Slack channels as you want, but all that is worthless if you don’t build the culture where it’s okay to use them.
Well the problem with corporate offtopic spaces is obvious: It is (potential) surveillance. One of the essential properties of the coffee kitchen at the office is that only you and the person who was there know what you said.
People at work will occasionally like to talk about things their collegues or bosses don't need to hear. That doesn't even mean it needs to be badmouthing others. Let's say you're really into model trains, it is easier saying that in person to the one other guy who acts a bit nerdy, than to announce it online in front of potentially everybody.
I leave it to you how you think this could be fixed.
Yeah, in a break room, you can see who's there and who you're talking to. It's not just surveillance, when you post in "#random" with the whole company there you need to post things that that resonate with everyone.
It doesn't involve groups, but I think DMs/1-1 chats are probably a better analogue for water cooler chats and I'd be even more surprised to see a company without those.
Accepting the possibility of committing the old "solving social problems with technological solutions" fallacy:
I wonder if an offtopic channel without history (or only a very limited one) could help here. Something that prevents management from scrolling up to identify the people who post too much. In my company I wouldn't even expect that (surveillance) to happen or have consequences but I always have the possibility in the back of my mind.
I got some kind of summer flu the other day. It always catches me by surprise that you can get "a cold" in summer.
Oh, well, I don't really mind, it is one of the few times I rest and don't keep chipping away at my todo-list.
It sucks too though, because I also had plans with friends and it's harder to make new plans since many of my friends are teachers and start working soon, around the 20th.
> It always catches me by surprise that you can get "a cold" in summer.
Despite the name you don’t get sick from cold weather but from viruses that make you sick. During cold season we stay indoors more which increases our likelihood of being exposed to other people that are sick.
> I asked one of my teammembers – what’s up with that? “Oh, you know, there’s a release coming up soon, nobody wants to give an impression that they’re dilly-dallying around instead of working.”
This is what I’d worry about too. Apart from this, I don’t know how the chats will be used, who else might have some kind of access to those (IT, HR), etc. The pervasive monitoring of all network traffic makes it all seem like always being under the view of a panopticon.
I love working remote and don’t really want to go to the office (a tiring commute is one of the reasons; not having as much flexibility is another). But I’d be wary of off topic channels on Slack or Teams or any company owned/managed platform.
Mostly good but the webcam part is way off the mark. Humans are hardwired to look at faces and interpret micro expressions to interpret situations. Author may laugh in text emojis only but not everyone does
That said enforced webcam on is obnoxious too. Best orgs in my experience are the middle ground places - lightly encouraged - so that one can decide meeting by meeting
I used to work at a startup. Whenever I was bored I'd write short essays about random bullshit. Everyone enjoyed reading them. Then I moved to corporate. I immediately learned that corporate tries to, above everything else, minimize conflict. This means that anyone seen as conflict initiator will be punished heavily. This means that if my essay could be considered even remotely offensive to any of thousands employees, it will be, and I'll have problems. I learned to keep my mouth shut.
I don’t see why my colleagues should be my friends. Then again I live in Germany and it seems to be very much not the culture to mix those two things here
I am German and this statement catches me by surprise. All of my friends from a lot of different fields would agree that workplace friends are a very important pillar of our lives.
I think there are many strategies to get your own needs met. Keeping friends and work separate doesn’t automatically make it unhealthy; it’s more about individual choice. My peers would not want to work in places without friendship.
> someone who is not an enemy and who you can trust
Here's another:
> a person who you know well and who you like a lot
Don't you think it's beneficial to trust and like your colleagues? I personally find it helpful. Few of us do jobs of our dreams, so having friends at work is nice. You don't have to invite them to your birthday and family events to call them friends.
BrenBarn|6 months ago
I think it's healthy to have these off-topic spaces, but also important to make sure that everyone in the org has some such space that meets their needs, and that everyone understands where the line is for when you have to put the fun aside and do what needs to be done.
moomin|6 months ago
aaron695|6 months ago
[deleted]
makeitdouble|6 months ago
Offline people were in the same building under direct watch from the employer. We badged to enter and leave the building, employers surely felt fully in control.
Online that physical boundary disappearing, the pendulum swings the other way for companies that try to grasp the remaining bits of control.
That's one of the reason I prefer fully online shops, they'll usually have made peace with it and structured themselves in saner ways.
davidw|6 months ago
There's also a 'tipping point'. If you have 9 out of 10 people in the office, they're just going to be human and chat about stuff in the office and meet in person and the 1 person not there is best viewed as someone to farm piece work out to rather than part of the team. Which is fine in some cases but different than:
If 9 / 10 people are remote, then everyone is using the online tools and has to buy into them and they're all an integral part of the team.
skybrian|6 months ago
mnahkies|6 months ago
My response was that I'd much prefer we did this (talk about the surprises we're facing, or some interesting thing we stumbled across) than have it degrade to a pointless "yesterday I did x, today I will do y" where there's very little substance being communicated that isn't already evident from the Jira board.
jama211|6 months ago
unknown|6 months ago
[deleted]
agnishom|6 months ago
I used to not believe this before, but after COVID, I saw that this is how it is, at least for my personality
atoav|6 months ago
Well the problem with corporate offtopic spaces is obvious: It is (potential) surveillance. One of the essential properties of the coffee kitchen at the office is that only you and the person who was there know what you said.
People at work will occasionally like to talk about things their collegues or bosses don't need to hear. That doesn't even mean it needs to be badmouthing others. Let's say you're really into model trains, it is easier saying that in person to the one other guy who acts a bit nerdy, than to announce it online in front of potentially everybody.
I leave it to you how you think this could be fixed.
rendaw|6 months ago
It doesn't involve groups, but I think DMs/1-1 chats are probably a better analogue for water cooler chats and I'd be even more surprised to see a company without those.
sognetic|6 months ago
kruffalon|6 months ago
Oh, well, I don't really mind, it is one of the few times I rest and don't keep chipping away at my todo-list.
It sucks too though, because I also had plans with friends and it's harder to make new plans since many of my friends are teachers and start working soon, around the 20th.
_w1tm|6 months ago
Despite the name you don’t get sick from cold weather but from viruses that make you sick. During cold season we stay indoors more which increases our likelihood of being exposed to other people that are sick.
Thorrez|6 months ago
baxtr|6 months ago
There are more and more studies showing how light helps our immune system.
beingfit|6 months ago
This is what I’d worry about too. Apart from this, I don’t know how the chats will be used, who else might have some kind of access to those (IT, HR), etc. The pervasive monitoring of all network traffic makes it all seem like always being under the view of a panopticon.
I love working remote and don’t really want to go to the office (a tiring commute is one of the reasons; not having as much flexibility is another). But I’d be wary of off topic channels on Slack or Teams or any company owned/managed platform.
andai|6 months ago
Havoc|6 months ago
That said enforced webcam on is obnoxious too. Best orgs in my experience are the middle ground places - lightly encouraged - so that one can decide meeting by meeting
anal_reactor|6 months ago
bowsamic|6 months ago
47282847|6 months ago
I think there are many strategies to get your own needs met. Keeping friends and work separate doesn’t automatically make it unhealthy; it’s more about individual choice. My peers would not want to work in places without friendship.
Pavilion2095|6 months ago
> someone who is not an enemy and who you can trust
Here's another:
> a person who you know well and who you like a lot
Don't you think it's beneficial to trust and like your colleagues? I personally find it helpful. Few of us do jobs of our dreams, so having friends at work is nice. You don't have to invite them to your birthday and family events to call them friends.
agnishom|6 months ago
KoboldAdvocate|6 months ago