This is great news for RPi team and for uk manufacturing. I've been saying for over a year now that if there is a reasonable level of automation then there is no reason why china should be cheaper than the uk.so long as you can maintain a robust supply chain of components (I should think using a sony facility is beneficial to this) then it can work out great.
We priced our product for uk and china and china was infact more expensive because of the way they price plastics. Sometimes UK is best
I completely agree but it's not just wages and taxes.
China has everything they need to bleem out consumer electronics indefinitely. They source the materials within China and they produce [most of] the components in China. It's all there under one currency.
I love England but we don't really have the rare earth metals required to do this stuff. We need to import them and that means paying China more money. Often more money than it would be to have them fab the whole thing in the first place.
I agree that this is something that needs to happen eventually. If the world keeps paying China to make everything they will end up owning us all. On paper they probably already do.
I spoke with Raspberry Pi about this for a news story I wrote. They said this about manufacturing: "The temptation is always to push manufacturing to a low-cost region, but I think with the right attention to detail there's no reason British manufacturing can't compete in a global marketplace," Eben Upton, founder of the Raspberry Pi foundation told ZDNet UK on Thursday. "It shows that British manufacturing can be competitive."
( http://www.zdnet.com/raspberry-pi-manufacturing-comes-home-a... )
Just a small one, but the Teensy creator was looking into moving manufacturing to the US. I just found out about the Teensy 3.0 on Kickstarter[1] actually, but it doesn't mention anything about the manufacturing.
A lot of professional sound studio gear is still being made in the UK and the US (and has always been. Studio types are very picky about the origin of the gear they are using).
My employer manufactures high-end electronic goods in the US with a full manufacturing floor. We succeed in part because of aggressive attention to detail, exacting automation and constant improvement.
It also helps that we're not in a price race to the bottom.
Yes, Google "reshoring" for a number of news articles and opinion pieces about how it's happening to some degree and how big of a deal it may or may not be.
Yes, it's actually a White House talking point this week: "Since February 2010, the U.S. manufacturing sector has added roughly 500,000 jobs, the fastest pace of job growth in the sector since 1995".
There was an article I read about how US manufacturing are making a comeback, but mostly in bespoke manufacturing that requires a lot of automation and technology.
On the other side, there is the story of the man who tried to source all of his solar panel parts in the US. He's actually having difficulty doing this (supply chain issues).
> we had been unable to find a British manufacturer [...] who believed that the project would be enough of a success for them to risk line space for us.
I think that sums up current European attitudes to manufacturing and capitalism all too well, sadly. Note how they eventually ended up with a Welsh factory... owned and run by Sony.
And what does a supposedly business-friendly government do? Worry about building houses. Sigh.
Well, our ageing housing stock, escalating house prices and lack of urban social mobility does warrant focus on housing, the knock on effects for the construction industry also show this as being a sensible economic policy as well as solving an increasing socioeconomic problem.
I'm not sure how using a Welsh factory shows how this government is anti capitalist or anti manufacturing - given that Wales is in the UK and it is the UK government I don't think it matters where it is in the country. The factory is probably based there as a result of the government incentives about a decade to fifteen years ago which were introduced to get large corporations to base operations in areas of Wales who had been relient on the mines and who, at that time, had spiralling unemployment.
Alos, The EU isn't anti manufacturing. Everyone is looking to the German model (high value manufacturing) as they are the only one bucking the downward trend and actually growing. The UK itself still has a very healthy manufacturing sector - I forget the exact figure but it makes up a double digit percentage of our GDP so it is not insignificant at all.
I agree more could be done to improve the position of manufacturing but to look at the Chinese model and say "hey, we should have all the back here" is not the answer. Electronics, chemicals and high end goods we should have but let china make the Barbie Dolls and cheap tat, that's not what we should be aspiring to.
Now I'm imagining Maurice Moss examining his frotzed Raspberry Pi board, finding the "Made in Great Britain" badge, and shaking his head in resignation.
With all of the manufacturing issues the RPi team has had, I can't help but think what a tremendous PIA building something reasonably sophisticated is.
Kudos to the team for taking on such a difficult and worthwhile project and putting up with all of the issues. Even if the RPi in and of itself isn't successful, it's definitely brought these kinds of small, cheap simply computers to the forefront of many minds and that's a good thing.
Hopefully this brings more control over the production by the RPi team. If something is going wrong, it's a lot easier to take a trip down the M4 (or the train) than it is to fly to China and sort things out.
Fantastic news and glad they have been on the case about this since day one.
Two things out of this whole affair that stand out are:
1) UK Manufacturing clearly needs a better way to make its services available so people can utilise them, the goverment should be helping in this area. Wales have done alot to promote manufacturing and probably has a fair chunk of the UK production, the whole of the UK should be made more aware of this local resource.
2) TAX on a made product compared to the bits to assemble said product. From the current standing it is more cost effective to make products outside the UK as apposed to buying in those parts seperately and in bulk and making the product localy TAX wise, this is again another area the UK goverment has to address.
But the reality of bring some types of manufacturing back localy, even if driven by some of the lesser reasons makes sence.
This all said I would love for a Pi with more ram and also love a couple of network ports, make a lovely firewall unit then without messing with USB network adaptors. I'd also like USB3. So with that in mind maybe there is scope for a model C and D, idealy a model you can upgrade a little bit more in those respective area's. But if I had to pick anything overall it would be a little bit more ram. But there is nothing stopping me making my own board and modifications (skills pending), like most out there probably thinking about. Open Hardware schematics on github and group effort - anybody aware of any plans or projects along those lines?
2) - Would not be such a good idea. Remember that a good chunk of these get exported to outside. Raising a protectionist barrier will just encourage other countries to do the same.
Since the dawn of globalization and the post-Cold war era, a number of countries are getting slot marked into particular sectors like:
China for manufacturing, US for design, software, German auto mobile, India for outsourced services etc.
But to have a thriving and healthy society in a country, the variety is important so that people can pursue different interests and are not forced to migrate because there is no high-quality work in that area in that country.
Only way to do this is to protect the domestic market from foreign investment and give some time for high quality local players to grow. Then open for competition. But if a second world government does it, it is blamed for not allowing reforms and accused of denying progress to its citizens
So now another way is opening up.
So it is good for China too if such things happen. If a bunch of high quality companies open up in stuff that UK is traditionally known for (financial services?) then
the balance will be stuck.
I hope financial institutions like IMF, World Bank take such things into count and come up with measures to increase variety in every country. It will make life a lot
better for a lot of people.
"Last year, when nobody had heard of the Raspberry Pi, we had been unable to find a British manufacturer whose prices per unit (especially at a point where we were thinking of sales in the tens of thousands, not the hundreds of thousands you’re seeing now) would work for us, and who believed that the project would be enough of a success for them to risk line space for us."
Who wouldn't take one project because they were afraid you wouldn't come back for more? Is business so hopping over there that people scoff at a $1M deal because you may not come back later for a $5M deal? Or, were you actually asking them to reserve production, but that you might cancel before it started?
The key point I think is line space. Getting set up for production is quite a bit of work, and given that their new contract is for 30,000/month, the manufacturers clearly didn't want to set up an entire production line if they may only get a couple of months of usage out of it (since the original order would've been only in the tens of thousands).
Margins. In other words if cost of sales is high enough (and it usually is for large/old b2b) then working with small time customers is net negative revenue.
The biggest thing to take away from this isn't just they get to say made in Britain but that they've created an additional 30 jobs. Not only are they making a difference in encouraging people to learn from the hardware but they're also now creating another positive effect on society through job creation.
I tracked down this snippet which says who built it:
"A feature it shares with the BBC is that it is an all-British product; designed by Acorn, it is being built by ICL and Cleartone with custom-built chips by Ferranti."
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Mags/AU/AU_Nov84_IndiaTakes... gives detail of the Indian manufacture by Semiconductor Complex Ltd [under license from the American Rockwell Corp] and Mexican production by Harry Mazal (a company). It notes that the ULA will continue to be made by Acorn themselves (presumably in the UK).
>In both China and India, the consumer markets are comparatively small, but, as the
Indian deal shows, the educational and industrial sectors are massive. And both countries are crying out for western technology //
>Acorn will probably subcontract assembly to Cleartone in Abercarn; the Department of Industry’s £60,000 contribution meant that assembly would have to be in Britain. It will be marketed under licence from a box number, by mail-order. //
In the UK initially but they had to scale out to Hong Kong for the international market (via Wong Electronics) as they were a little bit more successful than they expected. Nice to see it happening the other way round.
Great news! However, it would be even better if everything were made in the UK. Would be nice if the US could follow suit. Unfortunately it usually isn't good for business. But I don't believe that the government should interfere with free trade to promote such things.
[+] [-] simonbarker87|13 years ago|reply
We priced our product for uk and china and china was infact more expensive because of the way they price plastics. Sometimes UK is best
[+] [-] oliwarner|13 years ago|reply
China has everything they need to bleem out consumer electronics indefinitely. They source the materials within China and they produce [most of] the components in China. It's all there under one currency.
I love England but we don't really have the rare earth metals required to do this stuff. We need to import them and that means paying China more money. Often more money than it would be to have them fab the whole thing in the first place.
I agree that this is something that needs to happen eventually. If the world keeps paying China to make everything they will end up owning us all. On paper they probably already do.
[+] [-] lgeek|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mappingbabel0|13 years ago|reply
Are there similar moves underway in the US?
[+] [-] ricardobeat|13 years ago|reply
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulstoffregen/teensy-30...
[+] [-] bnastic|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pnathan|13 years ago|reply
It also helps that we're not in a price race to the bottom.
[+] [-] joshuahedlund|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dangrossman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hosh|13 years ago|reply
On the other side, there is the story of the man who tried to source all of his solar panel parts in the US. He's actually having difficulty doing this (supply chain issues).
[+] [-] toyg|13 years ago|reply
I think that sums up current European attitudes to manufacturing and capitalism all too well, sadly. Note how they eventually ended up with a Welsh factory... owned and run by Sony.
And what does a supposedly business-friendly government do? Worry about building houses. Sigh.
[+] [-] simonbarker87|13 years ago|reply
I'm not sure how using a Welsh factory shows how this government is anti capitalist or anti manufacturing - given that Wales is in the UK and it is the UK government I don't think it matters where it is in the country. The factory is probably based there as a result of the government incentives about a decade to fifteen years ago which were introduced to get large corporations to base operations in areas of Wales who had been relient on the mines and who, at that time, had spiralling unemployment.
Alos, The EU isn't anti manufacturing. Everyone is looking to the German model (high value manufacturing) as they are the only one bucking the downward trend and actually growing. The UK itself still has a very healthy manufacturing sector - I forget the exact figure but it makes up a double digit percentage of our GDP so it is not insignificant at all.
I agree more could be done to improve the position of manufacturing but to look at the Chinese model and say "hey, we should have all the back here" is not the answer. Electronics, chemicals and high end goods we should have but let china make the Barbie Dolls and cheap tat, that's not what we should be aspiring to.
[+] [-] bitwize|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krzyk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bane|13 years ago|reply
Kudos to the team for taking on such a difficult and worthwhile project and putting up with all of the issues. Even if the RPi in and of itself isn't successful, it's definitely brought these kinds of small, cheap simply computers to the forefront of many minds and that's a good thing.
[+] [-] freehunter|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robotmay|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zenst|13 years ago|reply
Two things out of this whole affair that stand out are:
1) UK Manufacturing clearly needs a better way to make its services available so people can utilise them, the goverment should be helping in this area. Wales have done alot to promote manufacturing and probably has a fair chunk of the UK production, the whole of the UK should be made more aware of this local resource.
2) TAX on a made product compared to the bits to assemble said product. From the current standing it is more cost effective to make products outside the UK as apposed to buying in those parts seperately and in bulk and making the product localy TAX wise, this is again another area the UK goverment has to address.
But the reality of bring some types of manufacturing back localy, even if driven by some of the lesser reasons makes sence.
This all said I would love for a Pi with more ram and also love a couple of network ports, make a lovely firewall unit then without messing with USB network adaptors. I'd also like USB3. So with that in mind maybe there is scope for a model C and D, idealy a model you can upgrade a little bit more in those respective area's. But if I had to pick anything overall it would be a little bit more ram. But there is nothing stopping me making my own board and modifications (skills pending), like most out there probably thinking about. Open Hardware schematics on github and group effort - anybody aware of any plans or projects along those lines?
[+] [-] option_greek|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agumonkey|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koushikn|13 years ago|reply
But to have a thriving and healthy society in a country, the variety is important so that people can pursue different interests and are not forced to migrate because there is no high-quality work in that area in that country.
Only way to do this is to protect the domestic market from foreign investment and give some time for high quality local players to grow. Then open for competition. But if a second world government does it, it is blamed for not allowing reforms and accused of denying progress to its citizens
So now another way is opening up.
So it is good for China too if such things happen. If a bunch of high quality companies open up in stuff that UK is traditionally known for (financial services?) then the balance will be stuck.
I hope financial institutions like IMF, World Bank take such things into count and come up with measures to increase variety in every country. It will make life a lot better for a lot of people.
[+] [-] drone|13 years ago|reply
"Last year, when nobody had heard of the Raspberry Pi, we had been unable to find a British manufacturer whose prices per unit (especially at a point where we were thinking of sales in the tens of thousands, not the hundreds of thousands you’re seeing now) would work for us, and who believed that the project would be enough of a success for them to risk line space for us."
Who wouldn't take one project because they were afraid you wouldn't come back for more? Is business so hopping over there that people scoff at a $1M deal because you may not come back later for a $5M deal? Or, were you actually asking them to reserve production, but that you might cancel before it started?
[+] [-] jcollins1991|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] njharman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AUmrysh|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicholassmith|13 years ago|reply
Not bad for a small, charitable business.
[+] [-] rwmj|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbhjpbhj|13 years ago|reply
"A feature it shares with the BBC is that it is an all-British product; designed by Acorn, it is being built by ICL and Cleartone with custom-built chips by Ferranti."
From this article: http://www.stairwaytohell.com/articles/cr-BBCMicro-CToday.ht...
This from The Reg has detail on production and the race to win the place as BBC computer partner - http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/30/bbc_micro_model_b_30th....
This guy, who appears to be an authority, mentions the above and AB Electronics, see http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/BBCMicros.html. He details info on the companies in the Acorn ecosystem, http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Companies.html, but appears to miss out the suppliers ...
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Mags/AU/AU_Nov84_IndiaTakes... gives detail of the Indian manufacture by Semiconductor Complex Ltd [under license from the American Rockwell Corp] and Mexican production by Harry Mazal (a company). It notes that the ULA will continue to be made by Acorn themselves (presumably in the UK).
>In both China and India, the consumer markets are comparatively small, but, as the Indian deal shows, the educational and industrial sectors are massive. And both countries are crying out for western technology //
Talk about turn-around.
--
Edit:
http://yourcomputeronline.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/bbcs-prot... mentions:
>Acorn will probably subcontract assembly to Cleartone in Abercarn; the Department of Industry’s £60,000 contribution meant that assembly would have to be in Britain. It will be marketed under licence from a box number, by mail-order. //
Looking back http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/BBCAI2.html shows an Abercarn manufactured issue 2.
[+] [-] eckyptang|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mappingbabel0|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jilt|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmahemoff|13 years ago|reply