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MaxHoppersGhost | 6 months ago

Same thing is happening to most counties in Europe but they’re “fixing it” with immigrants. But the Germany filled with Germans will be disappearing just as South Korea is.

discuss

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toomuchtodo|6 months ago

All countries will eventually experience population decline, it’s just the speed of each that is different [1]. Global fertility rate already appears to be below replacement rate. Even China appears to be below 1 at this time [2]. India and Africa will arrive there likely in the next ~5-10 years, depending on rate of empowerment of women.

[1] https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44851759

Qem|6 months ago

> depending on rate of empowerment of women

People attribute it to empowerment of women, but I wonder if it's more correlation than causation. Women empowerment happened in the same time frame there was a large shift towards urbanization. The situation across the world before was like ~80% of people living in rural areas, and ~20% living in cities. Now those proportions are approximately flipped in many places. IIRC cities appear to be a net population sink for most of history, counting on an steady stream of people moving from the countryside each generation to replenish sub-replacement numbers. Raising children "free-ranging" is more straightforward in the countryside. In cities they demand a lot of micromanagement and resources from parents, because car-infested, cramped urban landscape is expensive and hostile to children. So perhaps the causation arrow flows from accelerated urbanization to both women empowerment and sub-replacement fertility rates, not necessarily from women empowerment to sub-replacement rates.

MaxHoppersGhost|6 months ago

Israel has a fertility rate of 3 and is very advanced so not all countries. It’s a cultural thing. We’ve given up religion and values for doomscrolling and dopamine hits.

dyauspitr|6 months ago

Why is fixing it in quotations? There are generations of Turkish, arabs, and Indians, that are very well integrated into European society.

dariosalvi78|6 months ago

population degrowth rate is higher than immigration. Also immigration doesn't come without issues.

lossolo|6 months ago

Maybe because from a strictly evolutionary point of view, that’s a failure: they won’t pass on their genes (maybe also culture, values etc.), and other gene pools will take over the resources their lineage worked to secure.

oezi|6 months ago

Fear mongering.

Current net immigration inflows into Germany are below 0.5% of population.

The big immigration waves of the last 20 years can be directly linked to devastating wars: Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine.

How many generations did it take for the Germans to become Americans in the US? Did it make Americans disappear?

palmotea|6 months ago

> How many generations did it take for the Germans to become Americans in the US?

It's not a question of generations. There were a lot of German-speaking towns in the US, but World War I-driven xenophobia pushed them to Americanize.

MaxHoppersGhost|6 months ago

Germans mostly assimilated and culturally were similar to existing Americans, sharing the same religion and similar values. Can’t say the same for Muslim immigrants at all.

jennyholzer|6 months ago

[deleted]

wincy|6 months ago

If a Nazi says the sky is blue is that something we should also reject outright?

xboxnolifes|6 months ago

The Nazi problem is/was not them saying "there are a lot of immigrants". It was the "solutions" they proposed.

tjs8rj|6 months ago

“A culture evaporating cannot be discussed and addressed because genocidal dictator multiple generations ago had adjacent motivations when he killed a bunch of people”

The problem with Hitler wasn’t that he wanted German people to be successful, it was his proposed solution that involved mass murder between genocide and global war.

This is a problem that requires thinking beyond lazy pattern matching

abstractbeliefs|6 months ago

It's a statement of fact, which is neutral on its own.

Where it becomes a right wing talking point (or a discussion about the socio-economic future of a country) broadly comes down to how you present the causes, implications, and necessary actions.

The fact that many more-developed countries having shrinking native populations is a fact that governments must reckon with in some way, and salting the earth on discussing because one faction is trying to exploit it cedes the ultimate policy decisions to them.

johnnyanmac|6 months ago

They'll do anything but pay their workers, and not overwork them. Almost like when you need to use 80% of your paycheck to pay rent that people can't think much farther than next month.

wagwang|6 months ago

No don't you see, we just need more migrants to be a permanent underclass to do our labor

tomp|6 months ago

German salaries are not bad, nor amazing.

I actually think they pay their workers too much though - for not working.

I think standard unemployment on full salary is 2 years, even if you quit your job yourself!

Generous benefits invite abuse…