[atsushin]

There was a pretty good Kurzgesagt video posted earlier today on alcohol in general: https://youtu.be/aOwmt39L2IQ

The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign. Even outside of the health benefits, a night out at the bar is expensive now (at least on the East Coast) and honestly speaking other drugs are simply more cost-effective. I still have the occasional cocktail when going out with friends but now that I'm focused more on my overall fitness I find less of a reason to drink now. Still love the vibe of bars and pubs though.

Anecdotally knowing that club drugs like ketamine and 2c-b are gaining popularity, I wonder whether young people may be turning onto substances like those now or if in general Gen-Z prefers to abstain entirely.

[chiffre01]

Anecdotally it seems like alcohol is being replaced with weed or other things. But it doesn't bode well for the future of mental health if social drinking is being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.

[thewebguyd]

> being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.

Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere.

Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized.

And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.

[TheAlchemist]

Exactly this !

I'm not advocating for more alcohol consumption, coming from a Eastern European country I've seen my fair share of what alcoholism can do to people.

However, it feels like there are 2 trends, none of which is good from my perspective. First one is what you mention - replacing social activities with solo ones. Second one is overprotecting kids, young adults and everybody in general. Kids in many modern countries are glued to phones and screens in part because their parents or schools don't let them to just go find something to do outside. Let them play on their own - yes it can be dangerous, but if they break an arm or a leg, so be it. They will be fine within a month.

[atsushin]

The lack of IRL 'third places' for young people to meet locally will only exacerbate the issue -- and probably should bear most of the blame. The car-centric infrastructure of the suburbs (well, the vast majority of America) encourages isolation and asocial behavior. It really sucks that for some, their lives will never go beyond that invisible cage.

[taeric]

Yeah, I have a hard time thinking this is specifically a good thing. A better relationship with drinking is not something to argue against, of course. But I find the dysfunction in so many people that take a strong stance against it rather hard to ignore, as well.

[stikypad]

TFA says the same surveys indicate that alcohol is not being replaced by marijuana use.

[silisili]

Everything is being replaced with solo everything. I know so many young Millennials and Z'ers who quite literally never leave the house. They're content with Doordash and their phones for media.

This is what corporations want. Lonely people are constant eyeballs . But this can't be good for society as a whole.

[epolanski]

I think you have a point. While I drink mostly in company, and rarely if ever alone, I do consume weed mostly alone.

Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people.

Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.

[weinzierl]

Quite to the contrary. A big part of alcohol use is group pressure. Much better for everyone if people enjoy their drugs alone.

[trashface]

When I replaced social drinking with solo drinking, I actually drank less (and at a slower pace). Without exception, every bad hangover I've had was from social drinking.

[zevon]

I find this dichotomy a bit strange. A lot of people consume alcohol alone and in many cases this ends up badly for them (no need to speculate about foreboding - the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available). Cannabis can be very common in and around social settings, depending on where you are in the world. Other drugs are also pretty much everywhere, including social spaces. They are just more invisible due to their illegality.

[amanaplanacanal]

if. Other drug use can be just as social as alcohol consumption.

[OkayPhysicist]

Substance use is dropping precipitously, because partying and socialization writ large are dropping. The people who party are still drinking, they're really not the ones driving these decreases.

Alcohol's primary purpose in our society is as a social lubricant. It both lowers inhibitions, and in the expectation of its doing so creates spaces with freer acceptable behavior. Cannabis doesn't currently fill that niche, because there aren't really spaces dedicated to its consumption.

[laughing_man]

I wonder if some of the drop is just that people are worried if they let loose a video will make its way onto TikTok and be there forever.

[littlexsparkee]

Well, with edibles, mints, drinks - does there need to be? There are lounges opening in some cities like Oakland, SF but that's an emerging thing depending on openness to changing zoning.

[xenospn]

When I smoke weed, the last thing I want to do is be around people, or socialize. It also doesn’t make me horny. The exact opposite of alcohol.

[zamalek]

> night out at the bar is expensive now

"They" will make it cheaper. If you look at the cost of alcohol in developing countries, it can be way WAY cheaper. The profit and tax margins are currently colossal, both of which can be changed by big booze.

[kingstnap]

You don't really need to compare to developing countries.

Making alcohol is not hard. It's not technically complicated, it's not dangerous, it's not capital intensive, it's not laborious, and the inputs are all cheap commodity goods.

If you went and bought a big barrel and some other equipment, you could make alcohol for literally pennies per can.

[Gigachad]

It’s not just alcohol tax. Rent, wages, and insurance cost way more than in developing countries.

[staplers]

NA beers and cocktails are becoming more common at bars and restaurants, which helps dramatically if you are shifting lifestyles.

You can still go out with friends and enjoy festivities while "blending in". People are often more caged if they're drinking and you're not and that subtle camouflage can help alleviate that social awkwardness.

[socalgal2]

> The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign.

Is it? That same video, in the last 2-3 mins, mentioned all the positives of alcohol and ton of possibly related fallout from social drinking going down. People being lonely and depressed instead of socializing.

If I had to choose between living an extra few years but being lonely and depressed vs living a few less years but enjoying them a bunch more I'd choose the enjoyment.

I get that *maybe* that can happen without the alcohol but it's not happening and my experience is that alcohol is a net positive at the moment, until some substitute appears.

Also, different cultures have different associations with alcohol. My opinions on alcohol changed over my life:

As a child my parents offered me a sip of wine/beer/etc and it tasted horrible so I had no interest.

As a teen I happened to get interested in a religion that said "no alcohol" and so I saw it as a bad thing.

As a 20-25 I gave up the religion but it was "designated driver" time and I was happy to be that and so alcohol had this negative "drunk drivers" association.

Around 26-30 I got in a relationship with some who liked to drink socially. I tried it, nothing tasted good and it gave me a headache so after a few months I went back to not drinking as i got nothing positive out of it.

As 30 something I moved to Japan where (1) I no longer had to drive so no worries about drunk driving (2) my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. Now, love that experience and I wouldn't give it up for almost anything. I love being with my friends, and, as the video pointed out, the alcohol works. The experience is different than without alcohol, and in a positive way. Remove it and it's influences and I think the experience would die out. I certainly don't like the negative health effects but I'm not going to give up hanging out with friends and the drinking, for me, is a positive part of that experience.

Here's a talk about how alcohol helped civilization

https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/

[cedws]

I live in Japan at the moment and from what I've observed, people enjoy the night a lot more than in London. I'm 24 and almost never see people my age in central London - it's simply too expensive for anyone to really hang out there. The busy pubs that people do go to are £8 a pint and have terrible service.

I feel that Japan is a place where you can really enjoy yourself at night. You don't have to worry about your phone being stolen, being ripped off or drugged, or having to pay for an extortionate taxi ride as long as you can wait long enough for the first train. London nightlife is worse in every way besides nightclubs.

[kruffalon]

> my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings.

There must be something I'm not understanding about "izakaya culture", because that just sounds like hanging with friends without a specific activity planned so you just talk shit, have a drink and eat (whether at home or different places around town), maybe someone breaks out a pack of cards?

[Balgair]

> a night out at the bar is expensive now

I mean, I understand the economics of it. Rent, wages, pricing, supply and demand, etc.

But, like, how messed up are things that hooch is too expensive. Like, it literally grows on trees (if you leave it there a bit). Booze is the thing where sales go up when things get worse (lipstick too, right?).

I'm not saying this is a bad thing that we're not drinking as much, but I am saying that not drinking as much is a sign of really bad things.

[theshackleford]

> But, like, how messed up are things that hooch is too expensive.

In my country, it is now taxed very heavily, and that tax increases every year. I would be insane to choose alcohol as opposed to literally any other drug on a cost basis. I assure you, Cannabis has not raised in price every year.

[sillyfluke]

This stat is way less interesting when it turns out the main driver for the drop is the economy, which my bet is on, and which is why the article buries that cause and puts it towards the end of the article. If the stat can't survive a booming economy it's kind of meaningless.

But it might be very interesting for another reason: it might be confirming the perception of the economy is at an all time low as well.