top | item 44897658

(no title)

gardaani | 6 months ago

Debian Trixie drops 32-bit x86 support. Ubuntu dropped 32-bit support already earlier, which meant that lightweight Lubuntu and Xubuntu don't support it either. It's sad to see old hardware support getting dropped like that. They are still good machines as servers and desktop terminals.

Are there any good Linux distros left with 32-bit x86 support? Do I have to switch to NetBSD?

discuss

order

pedrocr|6 months ago

> They are perfectly good machines as servers and desktop terminals.

On the power usage alone surely an upgrade to a still extremely old 64bit machine would be a significant upgrade. For a server that you run continuously a 20+ year old machine will consume quite a bit.

yobbo|6 months ago

Among the possible reasons for keeping old machines are specific expansion cards or peripherals that only work on old motherboards.

Whether that motivates debian support is another question.

miohtama|6 months ago

> It's sad to see old hardware support getting dropped like that.

The problem is that someone needs to work to support different hardware architectures. More exotic hardware, more complicated and expensive the work becomes.

People who run these 32-bit machines are unlikely to vouch in terms of work contributed or money contributed to get the people paid for this work, so it is better to drop the support and focus the same developer resources on areas which benefits larger user base.

snvzz|6 months ago

the real problem is Linux is written in such manner that APIs change very often, and code all over the place including drivers is monkeyed without testing and often broken, sometimes in very subtle and hard to debug ways.

It is an overall design issue. Linux has a huge maintenance burden.

themafia|6 months ago

> are unlikely to vouch in terms of work contributed or money contributed

Unlikely? Did anyone bother to ask?

shellac|6 months ago

> Are there any good Linux distros left with 32-bit x86 support?

When your kernel stopped support over a decade ago (iirc) it does seem inevitable that distros will slowly evaporate.

bjackman|6 months ago

Linux didn't drop support for 32bit x86.

You might be thinking of i386 or something.

eloisant|6 months ago

OK, I have to precise it because this comment is not super clear...

They're no longer providing 32-bit images. However if you have a 64-bit processor, and a 64-bit image, you can still run 32-bit binaries.

ahartmetz|6 months ago

I have actually upgraded a really old 32 bit only laptop from bookworm to trixie - it works. Two important (for the desktop environment) packages required SSE3 which the CPU doesn't support, so... I installed package "sse3-support" with environment variable IGNORE_ISA=1 set. The kernel was not upgraded because trixie doesn't contain an i386 kernel. The laptop works surprisingly okay, though of course it's not much fun with its weak performance, low RAM and mechanical disk.

ethan_smith|6 months ago

Void Linux, MX Linux, antiX, and Slackware still maintain 32-bit x86 support with active development.

BrenBarn|6 months ago

Isn't MX Linux Debian based? Would this mean they'll also be dropping it when they shift their base to Trixie?

zozbot234|6 months ago

32-bit userspace packages are still supported, though with increased hardware requirements compared to Bookworm. You may find that you're able to run a more-or-less complete 32-bit Trixie userspace, while staying on Bookworm wrt. the kernel and perhaps a few critical packages.

If 32-bit support gets dropped altogether (which might happen for 'forky' or 'duke') it can probably move to the unofficial Debian Ports infrastructure, provided that people are willing to keep it up-to-date.

cjfd|6 months ago

I kept my old 32-bit laptop alive for quite a bit using archlinux32 but in the end more and more software started breaking, so that is not really a route I can recommend anymore. I was using the laptop mainly if I was traveling or on holidays, so not so very often so it felt wasteful to to buy a new one. But this year the software breakages really started costing too much time, so I bought a new one. RIP old laptop (2007-2025).

WhyNotHugo|6 months ago

Alpine still supports x86 and other 32bit platforms. It’s also very lightweight, though I’d say it targets a very different userbase than Debian or Ubuntu — the default install is quite minimal and requires more setup.

flohofwoe|6 months ago

Does dropping 32-bit support just mean that there are no supported x86-32 OS images, or that 32-bit applications are generally not supported?

If it means that no 32-bit apps are supported, how does Steam handle this? Does it run 32-bit games in a VM? Is the Steam client itself a 64-bit application these days or still stuck on 32-bits?

unleaded|6 months ago

There is no 32-bit kernel build or ISO image anymore but you can upgrade to Trixie from Bookworm.

abhinavk|6 months ago

No x86-32 images.

qwertox|6 months ago

Just keep in mind that this does not apply to armhf, which is 32 bits and all old Raspberry Pi boards use.

What's your use case for 32-bit x86 where you are still keeping Debian at its latest version? Alone for the power consumption you might be better off by switching to a newer low-spec machine.

tmtvl|6 months ago

Gentoo supports pretty much everything under the sun.

FirmwareBurner|6 months ago

>It's sad to see old hardware support getting dropped like that. They are still good machines as servers and desktop terminals

How many 32 bit PCs are still actively in used at scale to make that argument? Linux devs are now missing kernel regression bugs on 64bit Core 2 Duo hardware because not enough people are using them anymore to catch and report these bugs, and those systems are newer and way more capable for daily driving than 32 bit ones. So then if nobody uses Core 2 Duo machines anymore, how many people do you think are using 32bit Pentium 4/Athlon XP era machines to make that argument?

But let's pretend you're right, and assume there's hoards of Pentium 4 users out there refusing to upgrade for some bizarre reason, and are unhappy they can't run the latest Linux, then using a Pentium 4 with its 80W TDP as a terminal would be an insane waste of energy when that's less capable than some no-name Android table with a 5W ARM SoC which can even play 1080p Youtube while the Pentium 4 cannot even open a modern JS webpage. Even most of the developing world now has more capable mobile devices in their pockets and don't have use for the Pentium 4 machines that have long been landfilled.

And legacy industrial systems still running Pentium 4 HW, are just happy to keep running the same Windows XP/Embedded they came from the factory since those machines are airgapped and don't need to use latest Linux kernel for their purpose.

So sorry, but based on this evidence, your argument is literally complaining for the sake of complaining about problems that nobody outside of retro computing hobbyists have who like using old HW for tinkering with new SW as a challenge. But it's not a real issue for anyone. So what I don't get is the entitled expectations that the SW industry should keep writing new SW for free to keep it working for your long outdated 25+ year old CPU just because you, for some reason, refuse to upgrade to more modern HW that can be had for free.

There are good faith arguments to be had about the state of forced obsolescence in the industry with Microsoft, Apple, etc, but this is not one of them.

>Are there any good Linux distros left with 32-bit x86 support? Do I have to switch to NetBSD?

Yes there are, tonnes: AntiX, Devuan, Damn Small Linux, Tiny Core Linux, etc

Traubenfuchs|6 months ago

> 80W TDP as a desktop terminal would be an insane waste of energy when that's less capable than some no-name Android table with a 5W ARM SoC which can even paly 1080p Youtube while the Pentium 4 cannot

Insane how far hardware got: the pentium 4 engineers probably felt like the smartest people alive and now a pentium 4 looks almost as ridiculous and outdated to us as vacuum tube computers.

guappa|6 months ago

> that's less capable than some no-name Android table

You cannot run the software you want on that device, so I don't see how you can claim that.